I’m now beginning to understand the concern about Bill C-30 and giving police more power.
Check your child’s backpack right now for any drawings of guns!
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Related
More Nanny-State Interference in the school system: Parents furious as Occupy Toronto assignment has students writing protest slogans for class work - Post
And what about those three kids who were taken to Family and Children’s Services ‘to be interviewed’? Was that not traumatic for them?
Your children are not your children. They belong to the State and all their various agencies, unions and related ideologies – unless you choose to abort them first.
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(H/T BCF)
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Saturday Update
Gun leading to dad’s arrest was a toy – Record. (With pic of offending weapon.)
...On Friday, Sansone’s wife Stephanie Squires held the toy in her hand.
“You can see springs in it and everything,” said Squires, who is five months pregnant with the couple’s fifth child. “You can totally see it’s not a real gun.”
But Sansone says he is feeling real consequences of being arrested. The 26-year-old life issues counsellor for the Kitchener-based Sobriety Center was taken from the school in a police car.
“My family has been tarnished. My name has been tarnished,” Sansone said on Friday. “My children aren’t even going back to that school again.”
Sansone is scheduled to speak to 700 high school students at St. Benedict Catholic Secondary School in Cambridge next month on the issues of drugs, violence and anti-bullying.
If we err, let’s err on the side of our kids’ safety – Luisa D’Amato, Record. I decided to post this for discussion purposes although I disagree with it to a certain extent. She refers to the Shafia case as justification. I see the two situations as the opposite ends of a continuum where we would want to balance child protection against privacy concerns.
And what would have happened if the family in question has been anything other than white? Would the police have acted differently?
This thing is heating up. Lance and Sandy share their differing perspectives. Sandy provides a link to legal requirements for educators to report concerns.
And here is a little reminder of an incident that happened in Kitchener in 2007:
The events on the hot, summerlike day started around noon yesterday when two plain- clothes officers were undertaking a street-level investigation at an apartment building at 812 King St. W., across the street from the high school.
The officers noticed some activity at the school and walked across the street to investigate.
One officer left his knapsack, containing his service revolver, ammunition, handcuffs, pepper spray, baton, police radio and notebook on the ground. His police badge was not in the bag.
Insp. Bryan Larkin estimates the bag was left unattended for between 15 and 20 seconds before the officer realized he had left it behind. By the time he returned, it was gone.
“Mistakes happen in our business,” Larkin said. “We are going to look into how this happened.”
Gotta love the irony.
Jack’s Newswatch has a link to a column by Joe O’Connor that totally got by me. Great discussion at Jack’s too.
Possession of a dangerous crayon -Ezra Levant:
That’s the thing about civil liberties. It can’t just be for pornographers or Muslim terror suspects.
Civil liberties have to be there for lawful gun owners.
And parents of creative children who are dangerous enough to draw a crayon gun.
Possession of a Crayon – Ezra Levant (Interview with Lawyer).
I too have had a lightbulb moment after hearing this today but is this the norm or a crew of overzeolous, nanny state keystone kops? It’s a complete breakdown of an entire system imo. Instead of using diplomatic, well chosen communication, they ALL acted like a mob against not just Daddy but an entire young family.
There was not a protective instinct on any level but simply one of intimidation and terror. This little girl will never forget, the MONSTERS are real!
But if you’re a muslim man beating and eventually killing your wife and children it’s just no big deal.
This highlights where the weakness is in bill C.30 – it will be administered by our discredited and distrusted police forces all across the country.
When I arrived in Canada in 1970 the police forces were all fairly highly thought of. I know that in the town I live in the RCMP ball used to be a very high profile event – not today.
Every night the news brings more cases of various forms of police disgrace which could never have been contemplated in the past. I am not speaking of a few bad apples but rather a trend of very poor calibre officers in the various forces. Plus there seems to be a general dearth of common sense.
This situation must be very disheartening for the diligent police officers all across the country who do stellar work such as on the recent Shafir case and, I am sure, the officers working on all of the child pornography cases.
It is a real conundrum.
If I ever have children, they will never see the inside of a public school.
I think you have nailed it there!
You are a wise man, Don. Check the updated link.
If you’re diabetic, don’t just check your kids backpack for drawings of guns… Can you imagine what the cops would do if little Sally had a drawing of mommy or daddy using a needle to inject insulin! They’d roll out the SWAT team for daddies gun and mommies drugs!!! (Probably have the CBC news team filming it live…)
Only pictures of Gaia and recycling bins are allowed in classroom art.
No, for that they would issue them free needles; shooting up is now good but owning a firearm is evil. The Liberal Firearms Act needs to be repealed since it makes it criminal to own any firearm if the cops decide to do so.
No no no they’d give the kids some pamphlets about the safe injection site. Drugs are all good for the Liberals. Addicts are victims of society and all that. Where’s your heart?
Charles Adler is covering all this tonight.
It’s time to check out what’s going on in our schools. Can anyone imagine the harm this episode might have on the kids of that home to have their father arrested and the “children’s welfare” people involved?
Can this really be happening in Canada?
Has it all stemmed from the socialist mindset which we know is firmly entrenched in our school systems and rabidly against getting rid of the useless/pointless gun registry? This is the horror we now will be sending our babies to all-day kindergarten to be brainwashed even earlier?
This is the horror we now will be sending our babies to all-day kindergarten to be brainwashed even earlier?
And paid for by increased borrowing? We won’t pay for that. Our poor indoctrinated children and grandchildren will.
Liz: “It’s time to check out what’s going on in our schools.”
And, there’s the rub. As a stay-at-home parent (strongly discouraged and punished by the Liberal$ through their unfair taxation of families living on one income with a parent home to care for their children) I monitored very closely what was happening in my kids’ classrooms and school. The radical feminist principal hated me! As did many of the feminists on the staff — to the extent, even, of taking it out on one of my kids who struggled in school.
Because so many families have both parents in the work force, how many of these parents have the time or energy to monitor what’s happening in their kids’ classrooms and schools? This is how, in the past 20 to 30 years, the Trojan Horses of Political Correctness and bogus Children’s “Rights” have been able to infiltrate our schools with the goal of discrediting “dissident” families who believe in individual rights and freedoms against the collective. ‘Can’t have that. And, BTW, many of these families are practising Christians, which makes their transgressions doubly verboten.
As I mention in a post below, the real intention of all-day kindergarten for three-year-olds is to spy on Mommy and Daddy, to let the State know what goes on behind closed family doors, in the privacy (no longer) of our homes — even if it’s pure fiction, illustrated by a fanciful toddler.
Teachers and principals are now agents of the State to act as snoops and snitches. “Educators” of our children? Uh uh.
Think Socialism, it’s no longer a socialist creep into our education system, it’s taken hold.
There’s no real benefit to putting kids under four years old into a school system, it’s babysitting and the “early learning” header is bogus. It has more to do with creating jobs, raising taxes and risking “early brainwashing”. This case may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, this family’s nightmare should wake up a lot of people.
well we may all be guilty of jumping to a fast conclusion based on media need to have an exciting news story
the Shafari (excuse spelling) family murders can be contrasted in that case the children told teachers their father was going to harm them. Their father with the help of their brother murdered them
can we be critical or can we step back and say give the officials a break on this one
I say give them a break
It would probably have been handled in a common sense way just prior to the Shafari murder case
it was an unfortunate incident and a terrible experience for this young family
the world has changed
I do not agree with the searches at Airports they seem pointless as underwear bombers are able to board planes I do not feel safe flying period
we all need COMMON SENSE IMHO
fh
I hear what your saying fh but I’m the Grama of a 4 year old girl that is with us twice a week. There is NO WAY that she would be able to nor mean to communicate in the same way as a young adult.
I can see her drawing a picture like this and explaining it the same way. Her Daddy is her hero and would save her world with whatever it took.
The Quebec girls however were able to communicate as young adults and should NEVER have been interviewed with the parents present or them even knowing that the girls had gone to authorities.
If this is a case of trying to fix what was done wrong in Quebec well then they have swung the pendulum to the furthest extreme possible.
I think the system has bombed with over-reactive, socialist zealots and I hope this family sues their butts!
Why is it almost every time we lose a right , or have further restrictions put on us for the “greater good ” , theres always the action of one segment of socity behind it . The twin towers , the Shafia murders , Mark Lepine , I could go on , but some radical moslem commits a mass murder and away we go again . Out comes the damned brush and we all get tarred with it .And yeah , I know , Timothy McVeigh wasn’t a muslim . He was just insane .
This incident has really made me reconsider the implications of C-30 for civil liberty. We need to make sure that police don’t have over-reaching powers and yet make sure that children are protected.
There is no easy answer.
The teacher that went ballistic over this, and her principal should both be identified via the media. I would not be sending my kids or g/kids to that school where she teaches. We need to know more about her and her boss. What other idiotic things are they teaching in that class.
Will some lawyer offer to take on the lawsuits for free, the school, teacher, social services and police should not be allowed to get off scott free. Too bad that same social service agency, or other teachers didn’t act when they should have to save 3 sisters from being murdered.
Yes those are the two extremes for sure.
my dear they should all be sued. not one of them was correct legally in anything they did, from the school to the police. all shouold be fired and disgraced in public. tar and feathers would not be remiss.
I think this is a case of school teacher and principal playing judge and jury when they have no right to do so. I wonder how many parents of children in that same school have complained about their child being bullied and are still waiting for action to be taken.
Nothing will happen to the teacher, the principal or that school board. Never does.
I agree. Sadly my ‘teaching’ friends have become idealistic too, thinking they have windows into the souls of their students and OFTEN criticize parenting. Teachers used to be my favorite professional, not so much anymore as I listen to my grandchildren describe being programmed about so many ideological theories.
These people ARE NOT these children’s parents and should stick to teaching Math, History (Canadian would be a novel idea), English Arts, Science (stick with the basics and not THEIR personal ideology) and Physical Education.
Let there then be ‘options’ so that the nut-bar teachers can have a job and the parents that CHOOSE to teach their kids this stuff can but include also a balance for those parents that want THEIR VALUES taught.
Parents vote, parents should have a say and for the Provincial legislators to think they have a right to run the show is obscenely unjust.
That’s why I love our Charter system in AB being another alternative. We have different strokes for different folks, those that cannot afford the private schools but would like a private experience for their kids.
Another disgusting episode in Dalton’s Progressive Ontario. This is the quintessential example of where progressivism will lead in virtually all facets of our lives if we allow this creeping virus to continue. Next election, whether it’s municipal, provincial, trustee, whatever… ensure that you do not vote for a Progressive otherwise this abuse will become permanently entrenched in our “culture”.
I personally don’t blame the teacher or principal all. Been there and done something similar.
I blame the police knee jerk over-reaction. You can check things out without scaring the child and taking down the father.
Think about it. You are a teacher and a very young 4 year old child draws a picture of a gun. That would sure send warning bells to me. I taught art and I can tell you that is not simply imagination.
Anyway, tetter to be safe than sorry. If the police had acted as they should, we wouldn’t even have heard about it.
Imagine for example, if that entire family had been killed in a murder suicide down the road. What would you say then? Why, if there had been any hint of trouble, didn’t the teachers report their concerns?
In other words, damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
And, I totally disagree that it was none of their business. It most certainly is there business. It is the law of the land that teachers report suspected abuse. Has been for years.
I can’t tell you how many times I had to report bruises and obvious abuse over the years and that was in the 70s and 80s. Or, when kids were obviously hungry I had to call home to find out why. Unpleasant? You bet.
But, their minding their own business has far reaching consequences.
Another point of view.
I’m just saying that when I was a young Mom, I could talk to my kids Teachers’ as a team member and if this were to happen in my girls’ classroom, I was the “room Mom” and the Teachers would equally consult with me if I was privy to any issues. It worked because I was not only an advocate for the child (I was there 5 days a week and talked to their parents’ at least that often) and subsequently a window into the family. Not as a ‘Social Worker’ but as a peer.
Parents have all but been eliminated from the classroom. We did it alot here in AB during the ‘Ralph days’ of cuts and I loved it, the Teachers’ loved it and it worked because we were all in it together.
As a stay at home Mom, I helped raise and feed a ton of kids and thats a mentality that we should try and get back to rather than the current one of disassociation.
I blame the entire process. It was a domino effect and the Police were @$$es but so were the folks that called them, imo.
Calm, cool and collected would have been the way to go imo.
If the teacher he or she could have maybe oh I don’t know TALKED TO THE PARENTS ABOUT IT? I mean my son’s 4 and we don’t have a gun at home or let him watch violent shows but he points his hand like a gun and draws guns and talks about shooting all the time. I guess I’d better watch out for the cops!
We are talking about a four year old child drawing a picture of a gun at school and the teacher calling the police to check out the parents.
Could they not have called the parents and talked to them about their concern before calling the police?
In the their defense they also might have thought it odd that a child so young would think to draw a gun and say her daddy shoots “Monsters” and wondered if a gun was something the child saw around the house.
Whatever, whether it was an agenda at play or true concern, it was badly handled IMO.
Another thing, how would anyone feel about having their husband/father strip searched solely because their four year old drew a picture of a gun? There’s something very, very frightening about having this take place in Canada if this is all there is to this sordid, sorry affair.
People get strip searched for the crime of travelling by airplane in this country. What’s the big deal?
I disagree. What was the role of the gun here? The father used the gun to protect the family against outside threats. To a rational person this would be a perfectly legitimate use of a gun. But to a Progressive, the only politically correct weapon for self-defense is is a plastic fork. The very concept of “gun”, to a Progressive, is a legitimate reason to persecute a whole family. We have already seen this with the persecution of the man who attempted to protect his home from fire-bombing.
Everyone involved in this incident should be fired and kept as far away as possible from dealing with the public. They are dangerously stupid.
I agree that the teacher in question shouldn’t be blamed. She or he likely has been well-versed in which worrying signs to watch out for and then probably raised those concerns with the principal. And then things started to get out of hand.
The police in particular over-reacted and humiliated that poor man and his children. From the updated Record article he says he is pulling his kids out of that school. But the police really need to rethink how they handle such matters.
I disagree with you Joanne. Of course the teacher should be blamed. The principal in question should also be blamed just as the police who acted like petty street thugs should be blamed. If a teacher and principal and police officers are that lacking in wisdom and discretion maybe they should find a different line of work. A door greeter at Walmart seems to be about their speed. Yes the law stipulates that you must report suspicions of abuse. A 4 year old drawing a picture of Daddy with a gun ‘shooting bad guys and monsters’ is NOT sufficient grounds for suspicion of abuse. Yes child abuse happens. No it is never a good thing. However as a sentient human being if you have any sense of compassion you know that you can raise merry hell on a family by making baseless accusations. Therefore you HAVE to temper your ‘suspicion’ with some real evidence.
sandy, if you have done something similar teh you have a serious problem. it is not your place to make any such judgements.
No personal attacks please. Next step is the filter.
I would remind people who are being very judgmental because I have a different view, about youngsters like Randall Dooley. He wasn’t sent to school because his bruises would have been reported there. Would that not have been better than what he had to endure.
Unfortunately, there are other cases like that too.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/698990
It’s obvious the police over-reacted in this case but it is easy to say all they had to do was “talk” to the father. Doesn’t work like that. We are talking about a possible gun. What if the father had gotten violent? Someone could now be dead.
Anyway, damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
And, yes, Old White Guy, I once saved a child from being severely beaten on a regular basis. It was hard to prove. It was only when she showed up one day with a swollen mouth and broken tooth that I had proof enough to bring in the nurse. Sure, she said the child said she had simply fallen out of her bunk bed.
Anyway, I won’t go into what the nurse found but the child was sent to a foster family, who eventually adopted her. I met her again when she was in university. It was all I could do not to cry on the spot. She was happy and well on her way to becoming a chiropractor. And, yes, she did thank me for my intervention. And, that was just one of several such cases.
So, I cannot fathom anyone suggesting teachers should not intervene when they suspect abuse or neglect.
By the way, if Neaveh Sansone had been 7 or 8, I could accept the explanation about her creative “story” about monsters and a gun. However, while four year olds understand about monsters, they do not usually associate them with a gun because they are just starting to think concretely and usually their imagination is still at the magical thinking stage of emotion — as in fear. In other words, that drawing is far deeper than many are thinking. Plus, to attribute a logical scenario to it is simply adult thinking.
Anyway, this entire episode has taught me something I don’t much like. So, much as think outside the group even once and you’ll be attacked and suspected by some immediately.
Not a good sign for the Conservative Party of Canada when supporters can’t be themselves or are simply seen as circling the wagons.
Anyway, I’ll exit this thread now so as not to cause offense.
I’m glad you had such good success in the intervention you initiated Sandy.
However if I may I would like to relate one of many incidences I know of that did not have such a happy ending. There is a family I am friends with that was torn apart and the child almost killed because the doctors and nurses didn’t recognize hemophilia in an infant. The distraught parents rushed their baby daughter to emergency because the baby had a bruise on her chest. Social services were called, Dad was arrested, Mom lost custody of the rest of the children because the doctors and nurses thought the bruise looked suspicious. In a blind panic the mom phoned her dad, a pastor in a church a thousand km away who then started a prayer chain for his daughter and grand daughter. The prayer chain reached a nurse in a town 600 km farther away and she recognized that the baby had been pinched by the car seat buckle that the law insisted Mom and Dad use. She phoned the hospital and got in a very heated argument with the doctors looking after the baby. The baby’s bruise was getting bigger by the minute, the baby was failing to thrive and the doctors did nothing. In desperation that determined nurse, three provinces removed, began phoning the ministers of health and family services to get the aid the baby needed. The minister of health finally phoned the hospital admin who then instructed the doctor. The baby survived. The father was released, the family was reunited BUT there remains a social services supervision on the family. The parents have to report weekly to their case worker for an accident that occurred 3 YEARS ago. An Accident that would have gone unnoticed except the baby’s blood does not clot. Well that and a bunch of sanctimonious do gooders who can’t admit they made a mistake and are using the power of the state to cover their own butts by further abusing the family.
A point that I believe has been missed in all this discussion is the impact this is event is and will have on the children and the parents. I know of one family where the children would wake from nightmares over being separated from their parents because their parents were accused of child abuse. Not long ago I received a phone call from a suicidally distraught father at 3am. The false accusations of the ‘authorities’ were so troubling to him that he was contemplating suicide rather than go through life with a child abuser label. I was finally able to reach him by leading him into telling me how much he loves his wife and kids. Those accusations, proven false, absolutely decimated him as a man. Up to then he viewed himself as a worthy contributor to his family and his community. After he was thus accused he couldn’t work and took up drinking to dull the pain. The night he phoned me his wife had just informed him that she was leaving him because of what he was doing to himself. The next morning he attended his Alcoholics Victorious meeting and we began helping him find work. If the scars inflicted by the no-brains that thought they were doing the right thing by following the letter of the ‘tattle tale; law ever disappear it will be a long time down the road. Long story short: Too often the abuse inflicted by the would be rescuers is greater than the abuse the accused is alleged to have caused. Word to the would be tattle tales, tread carefully you may be accusing an innocent man or woman because you don’t/can’t understand the full story.
So the cops need to STRIP SEARCH a suspect to find a suspected gun?? And we want these bozos to have the power to comb through our computers looking for “evidence”? You know the last time I took a plane ride, they stripsearched me with their fancy imaging equipment, because you know a 60 year old man traveling with his wife on a holiday to Cuba might be capable of anything. And you know that any reaction short of delight means you won’t fly that day.
We always had stupid people in Canada, but years ago they weren’t in charge of anything
Yup they sure don’t want to offend anyone at the airport by “profiling”. That would be wrong so everyone gets the strip search. Everyone’s a terrorist. Impossible to narrow down the criteria.
Better safe than sorry, not tetter. Typing too fast.
As a long time advocate for parents in this province I don’t agree Sandy, but that’s ok. The system will use your argument I’m sure to wiggle out of taking any responsibility for it’s wrong-headed reaction.
O/T – on a provincial note there’s a rural showdown happening this week between rural municipalities and Dalton McGuinty http://www.lfpress.com/comment/2012/02/24/19422056.html
As SNN reported when this broke on Thursday the 4 year old girl’s picture was captioned and said that it was of her dad shooting bad guys and monsters (something like that).
Questions from a parent perspective that many have raised above but also, in context and with the “monsters” caption, did the teacher not think that drawing fantasy instead of reality? Liz raised this as well.
If a little boy had drawn a gun would a similar action have resulted.
How many other children have had their parents treated this way?
The school and board will cover their asses well, as will the police. The parent is on his own….that’s always the case. Actually though parents didn’t have SNN, at least now they do.
Too bad policing didn’t take such fast action on something like the disgrace of Caledonia as they have in this incident. Guess they didn’t need McGuinty to run interference to walk in, arrest and strip search a presumably innocent man. It’s still hard to believe it actually happened as has been reported.
I just added a link to the Record’s has a follow-up article.
They have a picture of the ‘weapon’ – a plastic toy belonging to the girl’s brother.
Why doesn’t McGuinty just put out an outright ban on Nerf Guns and Super Soakers? Then the authorities wouldn’t have to do any thinking at all.
thanks for the update Joanne. Good grief!
O/T – for those parents and/or educators here who have a real interest in collaborative education reform in this country, there’s a new education discussion forum setting up here that’s going to do try to do something new and different by bring all of those with more than a passing interest in education to a virtual discussion table. Participation from across the country would indeed be refreshing.
http://teachingoutloud.org/2012/02/25/creating-a-collective-canadian-voice-in-education/
“Why doesn’t McGuinty just put out an outright ban on Nerf Guns and Super Soakers? Then the authorities wouldn’t have to do any thinking at all.”
No kidding……the way the authorities carried on over this 4 year old’s drawing I was sure that the kid’s drawing must have almost life-like to provoke the response it did, but that drawing is very typical of a 4 yr. old perspective and not realistic at all.
“Super Soakers?” How about banning “Super Suckers”….but then that would include pretty much ever Ontarian in McGuinty’s Ontario.
How about banning “Super Suckers”….but then that would include pretty much ever Ontarian in McGuinty’s Ontario
Bingo!
“But Sansone says he is feeling real consequences of being arrested. The 26-year-old life issues counsellor for the Kitchener-based Sobriety Center was taken from the school in a police car.
“My family has been tarnished. My name has been tarnished,” Sansone said on Friday. “My children aren’t even going back to that school again.”
Sansone is scheduled to speak to 700 high school students at St. Benedict Catholic Secondary School in Cambridge next month on the issues of drugs, violence and anti-bullying.”
The most powerful part of this article to me is this.
Yeah rather ironic about the anti-bullying.
Watch out for the biggest bullies of all kids. Don’t let your teachers brainwash you into becoming one.
NDP Stupid – How stupid can they possibly get? Check this insanity out. It’s from Nova Scotia and speaks for itself
http://contrarian.ca/2012/02/24/orange-is-as-orange-does/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+contrarian%2FJFGk+%28contrarian%29
http://www.leaderpost.com/Harper%2Bcritics%2Bneed%2Bchill/6201358/story.html
good article ” Harper’s critics need to chill”
fh
excellent article fh – thanks for it.
I still have a vivid memory of what happened when I was caught by my Grade 3 teacher drawing an elaborate scene of guns blazing, blood splatters, and school and nearby houses in the scene, (when I should have been eyes forward). It went something like …’now David, you put that paper away this instant, and pay attention, or you will lose your colored pencils’.
What I’d been doing of course was reenacting our regular neighborhood game of ‘cops n robbers’ or ‘war’ as we often referred to it. We lived across from the school, thus its inclusion in our battleground scene.
I’m in my sixties now, and I actually do NOT have a criminal record; I’ve never owned a gun (not that there’s anything wrong with it), and to the best of my knowledge, all my childhood friends turned out ok too. We had such fun and enjoyed letting our imaginations develop.
So what has changed … I believe we’ve lost our way as a society in many respects. Political correctness, and so called ‘progressive’ nanny state thinking has eroded our rights and freedoms, and its getting worse folks. I shudder to think what would have come down on my parents, if that innocent drawing I had done years ago, was produced in a current Gr.3 classroom.
When I read this story that Joanne had linked to, I was in shock … I couldn’t believe it … but looks like its true.
and what about Bill C-30? I am a Conservative supporter (wasn’t always), through my vote, volunteering, and donations; I have generally been in favour of Bill C-30, with some reservations, although I don’t pretend to fully understand all its complexities and legalities; however, this incident in Kitchener, demonstrates shameful abuse of authority against a young innocent family, by the Principal, Children’s Services, and the police makes me sick to my stomach, and I no longer want bill C-30 to be passed. The inmates are clearly in charge of the asylum, and they’ve already got way too many keys to lock away what remains of our rights, our freedoms, and our dignity.
great post!
What changed? Well I suppose the idea that we can protect everyone from everything may be part of it but in fact I honestly believe that most of the evil in our present society is coming from ‘higher education’ and its advocates. What I mean is that in the higher education milieu you as a student are presented with all kinds of imaginary thinking (idle speculation, crack pot theories etc) as fact. Take for instance child psychology and compare what is taught to what actually happens and you can’t help but notice the huge disparity.
Like you Dave I grew up with toy guns of all sorts. Some of the toy pistols I had as a kid were works of art with faux ivory grips and hammers that moved etc. We carried our guns in decorated leather holsters on our hips just like the good guys we would see at the weekly oaters at the local cinema. (Mom and Dad wouldn’t let us watch tv) . We would play cowboys and indians for hours. Shooting each other until Mom called us home for supper.
Unlike you I owned a rifle which I inherited from my Grandmother. She was a crack shot and she taught me how to shoot Richardson ground squirrels with deadly accuracy. She insisted that I only shoot the gopher in the head so the animal wouldn’t suffer.
When my first child was born I sold that old rifle because it posed a potential threat to my young child and I had no real purpose in having it in the house. Nevertheless my sons all played shooting games with ‘guns’ they made out of what ever material they could find. My two year old grandson insists on playing with ‘pchws’. Pchw being the sound he thinks a gun makes. His mom tried to shield him from guns and violence but he went to daycare and soon picked up that playing guns is fun. Even as I look at the floor in front my wife I see my grandson’s toy pistol laying there from when he came over last night.
Now to assume that a picture drawn by a four year old of Daddy with a gun shooting bad guys and monsters is some kind of familial threat shows that those in authority have had too many courses in ‘psychology’ and not enough time in reality.
Jo I am in filter about a link
on Harper’s critics
fh
Released.
“I see the two situations as the opposite ends of a continuum where we would want to balance child protection against privacy concerns.
And what would have happened if the family in question has been anything other than white? Would the police have acted differently?”
Exactly Joanne!
I DO see both sides, but there have been many incidents when Child Services hasn’t done a stellar job of protecting children.
I still think the way this parent, was treated was wrong and over the top. I think that many will use the “better safe than sorry” to justify it as being ok that they over-reacted for the reasons suggested.
However, seasoned parents also have heard that “better safe than sorry” explanation too many times re: other issues where it’s used inconsistently or to deflect blame. That does happen.
Sometimes it’s more about covering their butts.
you’re right. It’s not about an individual teacher doing what he/she is trained to do or watch out for. It’s how the collective responds, and is trained to respond to things like this……circle the wagons and aim outwardly toward parents and students.
Someone wondered about what would have happened if this family weren’t white. I bet the advocates of whatever culture or nationality the family was from would be up in arms over discrimination and excessive use of force….AND the liberal media would be all over this in no time.
“If we err, let’s err on the side of our kids’ safety” — at the supreme cost of every Canadian’s (increasingly dwindling) freedom rights.
The Trojan Horses of Political Correctness and bogus Children’s Rights, in order to ensure children’s “safety” from their families, are now in place for the State’s takeover of the guardianship of Canada’s children.
This is what all-day kindergarten for three-year olds is really all about: Spy on Mommy and Daddy. Let the State know what goes on behind closed family doors, in the privacy (no longer) of our homes — even if it’s pure fiction, illustrated by a fanciful toddler.
Teachers and principals are now agents of the State to act as snoops and snitches. “Educators” of our children? Not so much.
Some people will still be justifying the control freaks actions when they get a tattoo on their arm identifying them and a bar code across their forehead or a brand on their buttocks . Wait a minute , they’ve done some of that already . What’s it going to take ?
Ever since Canada abandoned the common law — and began legislating every action and verbal expression — and Canadians abandoned their Christian faith en masse, the State has been able to insinuate itself into every nook and cranny of our lives.
When we lived by the common law according to Judeo-Christian tenets, common sense reigned: We were all, more or less, on the same page when it came to social conventions and what constituted damaging anti-social behaviour. Self-discipline was abundant and the need for the State in the form either of snooping teachers or over-reacting police officers was pretty much non-existent.
Now, we’re over-regulated in our attempts, through Trudeau’s appallingly draconian-in-execution, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, to legislate every thought, conversation, and action considered to be politically incorrect, “racist,” “homophobic,” etc. Families, once considered the seat of health, safety, and well-being for our children, are now considered “the enemy” as the State vies for their complete indoctrination into Canada’s post-Trudeau dystopia.
Parents, look well to your children. Hang on to your children. Question their schools. Challenge the curriculum. But, don’t expect any affirmation, any pats on the back, or thanks. It’s a battle I’ve been engaged in for over 20 years and the only satisfaction is knowing that I’m doing the right thing. My Christian faith has strengthened me — not always the members of the churches I’ve belonged to — and given me the resolve I’ve needed to be constantly vigilant about the State’s intrusion into the lives of my children and family. No wonder my kids’ principal and teachers saw me as the enemy! We Christians are so dangerous!
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Great article, and it is a blast from the past, just in case a lot of us have forgotten some of the stupid things JC did.
Note to Trudeau – no government will ever fully reflect your values
By Licia Corbella, Calgary Herald February 25, 2012
Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Note+Trudeau+government+will+ever+fully+reflect+your+values/6209134/story.html#ixzz1nPQWW0fC
Marz T
your link comes up error
I put trudeau in their search and it brought up article
strange but good article very worth the extra trouble to locate
fh
“What if that family had of been anything other than White”
Indeed, what if they had been active members of the Conservative Party?
I am guessing the Po-lice would have shown up with a CBC camera crew and Bob Rae.
The Media Party and the Oppos have moved on from Bill C-30 they are now on
“Scandal #29″ complete with Nixonian references, Watergate yada yada.
It is an amazing thing that the Conservatives won the Election with only about 1% of the vote, ergo they musta stole it, “tricked” the “Western Hillbillies”
It’s no wonder we keep getting more of the vote, the average Canadian voter is sick to death of the NDPQ-F and the Liberano loving Media Party.
Meanwhile outside the Ottawa bubble some very good news.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/02/24/federal-deficit-december.html?cmp=rss
Teachers over reaction has been happening for years. I was called into the office 21 yrs ago, when my deaf g/son was in his last year of pre-school. A parent had complained he had touched a gr 1 girl in the wrong place. This mother was a social worker and wanted punishment. Seems he had attempted to touch her on the shoulder, to get her attention, and she turned as he was reaching and he touched her breast. As a deaf person, he had to talk face to face, this was an accident. Explained to mother that he was deaf and that is how he and other deaf people got attention, by touching. And he would probably do it again, asked the mother to explain to her daughter that she had to talk to him face to face. She left the meeting feeling very small. He also got in trouble in another case when a mother accused him of making an obsene gesture to her son. I asked what he did and mother just said, he made a gesture with his hand and I told my son to ignore him as he was stupid. Turned out he was signing, my name is xxx, you be my friend. That is how he communicated, in sign language. Result, both families moved from our town by years end.
Wonder how those kids turned out.
This looks like a police forum discussion on the topic. Am I allowed to link there? If C-30 passes without amendments then who knows?
Now I can’t play any video games while my 4 year old is around, in case she should see me shooting a monster on the TV screen. If she draws that in school, I’ll be sure to be sent off to the gulag.
Everyone with kids better get rid of their Wii Zapper as well, just in case.
I was wondering about video games too. If teachers are this concerned about guns then shouldn’t we be banning all violent video games as well?
“So what has changed … I believe we’ve lost our way as a society in many respects”
Columbine happened.
Taber happened.
Virginia Tech happened.
And with 24/7 coverage of such events, fear and distrust happen.
I can see both sides of this issue as being legitimate to a certain extent. We can all advance legitimate theories as to what’s and who’s at fault.
My take on what has changed, not necessarily THE right answer:
In reply to Dave’s 9:21 am question, my answer to “what has changed” is the absence of parents, especially the mother, who either by necessity or by design is no longer at home to receive the kids home from lunch or after school. Some kids go astray, for whatever reason, at times resulting in tragedies like the ones I cited above. The authorities, school and police, seeing such tragedies are rightfully alarmed, afraid the same thing can happen in their communities and thus take measures, sometimes extreme ones.
If the gun in question had been real and some incident with it had taken place, like a sibling being shot, all of us and the Monday morning quarterbacks would be tut-tutting, trying to find a culprit.
And that’s another thing that’s “changed” — we have all become sceptics, or worse, cynics, no longer trusting our institutions: government, the media, church, school, law enforcement, the family. Those institutions, though well-intentioned, are not mistake-free. Those mistakes are now seen as the rule rather than the exception, so the trust that should exist in functioning societies has been eroded, at time unjustifiably so, IMO.
Good comment, Gabby. Very objective.
there is no collective “we” at play here, in my opinion.
How many times have parents had concerns or raised issues of safety with a school official only for their response to be for the parent to calm down and that issues be dealt with on a case by case and very individual basis?
Columbine? Taber? 9/11? – weren’t the master mind of 4 year olds imagining her dad saving her family from monsters. In this case the dad was even slated to be a guest speaker at another school to speak about anti-bullying.
Parents have become cynics and have lost trust in our education system over the course of many years. It hasn’t happened overnight. Often, but not always, parents go in to the system encouraged and believing it’s the best thing for their child. Many still do.
However for those parents whose children fall through the cracks or who taking more than a passing interest in education, ask questions of accountability and explanation of the system, how that parent gets received, treated and has their questions answered is usually a clue as to how the stripping away of trust begins.
We heard of similar mis-handlings of issues before. Remember the primary school student from Atlantic Canada who was suspended for pretending a chicken finger was a gun?
For me this will always be how the system treated this parent, without just cause.
The system will come out clean on this. It always does and there will likely not even be an apology to the family.
Well said, Gabby … the events you referred to were all horrible tragedies, but thankfully, extremely rare. The fact that the classroom teacher and principal, Family and Children Services, and the Police all state that they ‘did exactly the right thing’ (based on rules and procedures) indicates to me that what happened to the innocent Kitchener family may not be quite so rare going forward.
But in actual fact, at least one “procedure” was apparently NOT followed… that being ‘there was no attempt to enter into a dialogue with either the father or the mother’ (prior to calling in the Swat Team) Common sense was absent big time. This was clearly, by any measure, NOT an emergency, yet it was handled as though it was.
So although I can see both sides, to some extent, I have deep concerns about the ‘rules and procedures’ we have just learned are in place in our schools and beyond. Parental Warning: consider letting little Johnny play his video games all night long if he wants, less you peeve the young man (or lady) off to the extend they come up with some very creative sketches in art class the following day. A little humour there …
sort of.
You’re right Dave. I’m betting a review of the whole episode will be in order and common sense was the missing link along the line.
Your concern about “rules and procedures” is a good one too.
If you have experienced being a parent alongside a child within the education system, one thing you learn very quickly from inside the system is that there is an exception to EVERY rule and procedure going. In some cases, those exceptions to the rules are identified by teachers, principals and trustees as flexibilities. Was there not room for flexibility in this instance?
Ooops!
Correction in last line: at time should read times.
We need to wonder about a lot things when we send our children off to schools, we need to be vigilant and get answers to our concerns as they arise. We also need to pay a lot more attention when electing people to School Boards where directives come from.
Who would ever imagine a parent would have his person violated by the police over a drawing done by his 4 year old in kindergarten?
How have we come to this place?
Who is to blame? Trudeau’s Charter?
Has it anything to do with the Behaviour of some from the “immigrant communities” who are practicing 14th century customs rather than integrating into our country, allowing their children to become Canadians and live as such?
This is not the Canadian school system most of us here grew up in. What’s going on, what’s being hidden from us that we have been so shocked with this sorry episode in one family’s life, their rights trampled by officers of the law without a proven cause?
It will be interesting how this is used and twisted by opponents of Bill C30, the NDP in particular.
I think some of the blame should be placed on the McGuinty Government, Family and Children’s services, and school boards – and obviously the police. Which level of government are they responsible to?
But the edict that teachers have to observe is clearly spelled out in the link at Sandy’s post. Read through that thing! I wouldn’t want to be a teacher and have to worry about being charged if I don’t report something that should have been. Teachers don’t seem to be allowed to have any discretion. That is a provincial matter.
The whole thing is rather intimidating.
I think most of the blame should be laid with those mentioned in your first paragraph.
Too bad common sense can’t be legislated, there was no evidence of it in this sorry episode.
Nice to see comment showing up in my e-mail again.
You mean as a subscriber? I didn’t know that was working.
First one to come thru was your comment at 1.18
How about that. I didn’t change a thing. Mmmm..
From the school in question here’s an excerpt from their website with the name of the school left out. In this particular case how was this demonstrated to this father?
“September Principal Message
XXXXXXXXX
Administrators and teachers everywhere recognize the important contributions parents make toward a child’s success in school. There is no question about it – success at school begins at home. Parents are the single most important variable in a child’s schooling. Parents model both a silent and spoken language in front of their children daily.
One of the most important components of a good school is the partnership between the school and parents who work together for the best interest of children. A close partnership between home and school is one important attribute we look to strengthen at XXXXXXXXX.”
“One of the most important components of a good school is the partnership between the school and parents who work together for the best interest of children.”
………but we won’t phone first when we have a concern, we will call in the gestapo who will dish out your worst nightmare on a silver platter.
Yeah. Exactly.
And here is the clincher from the followup story in the Record:
And then at the end even though the police have apologized to the man, Scott of Family and Children’s Services says, “We’re still investigating this one.”
What???
This nightmare is obviously not over for this family.
It’s my opinion that the whole thing is baffling because for me anyway, there are to many obvious questions.
First off, no one can tell me that a 4 year olds picture was clearly defined. This teacher would have needed to say ‘ so what is your picture about’….
Secondly, what did this teacher then do? Leave her classroom full of kids and rush off to discuss this? Likely she had time to muse, the same sort of time to decide that maybe she should call Mom.
Thirdly, this Dad is a well known contributor to the school. His name is out there and they would have (our schools do) had to do police checks for him to volunteer in the first place.
And then WHY oh WHY a strip search? That’s so way over the top it’s unbelievable.
To disrespect him and his family this way is beyond comprehension for me when a simple phone call from a skilled communicator could have ascertained a sense of what was at play.
It just seems to me that if this teacher’s/principals communication and listening skills were so awesome that a little girls description of her picture was responsible for this reaction, perhaps those same skills could have been used differently.
The following linked video might be a bit off topic, but it is kinda related too.
Warning: certain language might offend some viewers.
http://youtu.be/kl1ujzRidmU
There is no doubt that the father-daughter relationship depicted in the video needs some serious work; however, there was no arrest, no handcuffs, not even a measly old fashioned strip search of the Dad.
Certainly demonstrates the stark contrast in attitude between McGuinty’s Nanny State of Ontario and America, as it pertains to (lawfully registered) handguns.
Wow-
Now on Sunnyside Nick at http://www.cfra.com . Kris Sims of Sun NewsNetwork gives the latest update on the 4 year old child gun drawing fiasco.
Drag the slide bar back to the 09:20 point.
Will be on podcast later.
Thanks! I’ll have to check that out.
Listening to SNN’s Kris Sims on Sunnyside Nick on CFRA this morning, reiterating this horrible, humiliating ordeal step by step that the young family went through at the hands of all involved this had better not be over with an apology.
There are some things that need more than a sorry, we goofed, we shouldn’t have done this, bye, bye, case closed, this is one of them.
Maybe the father is being made an example of . I know it seems far-fetched but theres a lot of panic among autthourity figures and would be authourity figures about tthe long gun registry being sort of ended , maybe , someday . This whole episode is so far over the top and beyond any common sense that there has to be more going on here . What possible charges could the father be charged with here ? UNLAWFUL STORAGE OF A BLOODY CRAYON ? It’s un natural , bordering on insanity.
pleze pardun mi bludy spelling
There may be more to this story than the public is aware of. Privacy issues may come into play. Maybe we all need to take a breath.
Tuned in to SNN yesterday to watch this Superintendent being interviewed. I had the EXACT same reaction that Brian Lilley. Check this out, and the comments.
http://blogs.canoe.ca/lilleyspad/general/are-educators-really-co-parents/#.T0wJ7V6c5Hs.facebook
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