More on the Quebec accommodation dilemma.
From the Star – Quebec government kicks niqab-wearing woman out of class, again:
“She’s devastated,” Majzoub said. “This woman was insisting on being part of Quebec society, on integrating.”
And so we see the perils of veiled women insisting on ‘integrating’ into a society where seeing one’s face is a part of societal communication.
Or as Tarek Fatah states:
“This is an attire worn in the desert during sandstorms. It’s got nothing to do with religion,” said Tarek Fatah, founder of the congress. “It’s a very clear sign that women are the possessions of men, and it’s being thrust on North America and Europe. Most Muslims are fed up with the niqab and burka.”
Well in her defense, you can get sand in your eyes if you’re near the shores of some of the Great Lakes. Not sure about the St. Lawrence though.
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Related:
Beyond the pale on the veil – Lysiane Gagnon:
…The face-covering veil, however, is another question, if only because it prevents normal human contact. Would a school allow a male student to wear a mask to hide his face?
There’s also the question of security. A few weeks ago in France, two men entered a bank wearing burkas. The burka is even less revealing than the niqab because the eyes are hidden behind a fabric grill. A bank employee, assuming the two potential clients were women, let them in. But the duo had guns under their robes and held up the bank.
In Quebec, most agreed with the decision to expel the niqab-wearing woman, including constitutional lawyer Julius Grey, who has defended the right of inmates to smoke in prison and the right of Sikh students to wear ceremonial daggers in class. “Accommodation should not lead to separation,” he said…
Integration? Not. AGW + Islam + Taliban Jack Layton (NDP) = the Enemy within.
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“Would you kick a man when he’s down? Actually, yes I would if it’s Monbiot.”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100029281/climategate-george-monbiot-despairs-of-the-agw-cause-there-goes-my-lifes-work/
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“Jihad Jane: US blonde accused of terror plot
Colleen LaRose turned her back on suburban America to join terror plot against cartoonist, US prosecutors allege”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/
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“At least 500 Christians slaughtered by Muslims in Nigeria religious violence”
http://www.newswatchcanada.ca/
In a related issue, the Quebec government apparently funds daycares with a religious “mission.”
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2010/03/20100309-190630.html
Subventionnées par l’État
Tomassi défend les garderies religieuses
Agence QMI
Taïeb Moalla
09/03/2010 19h06
“Subsidized by the State
Tomassi defends religious daycare
QUÉBEC – Plunged back into turmoil, the Minister for Family Tony Tomassi defended the fact that child care subsidized by the state can focus their teaching on the spread of Muslim or Jewish religious values.
The Canadian Press revealed Monday night that child care funding of more than 82% by the public favored the learning of rituals and religious dogma, in some cases ultra-Orthodox. …”
(I tried to find other sources for this story, but was unable to find any. Excerpt above by Google Translate & my revision)
Why am I bringing this up? Because I don’t want us to be headed towards the establishment of madrassa-like institutions in our efforts to be accommodating to new arrivals.
Before 9/11, I had no issue with public funding of private schools, even those with a religious mission. I now do. As I wrote last month at Sandy’s (comment with some revisions):
I am opposed to faith-based schools. I don’t believe it’s a question of parents having “more choice.” I believe it can lead to a form of unhealthy isolation and lead to even more fragmentation of our already fragmented society.
Faith-based schools may have been harmless when societies were more homogeneous. There were relatively few differences between Protestant and Catholic schools. Some Jewish children attended Protestant schools, while others attended private schools.
Saturday schools were set up, but primarily for heritage language classes, organized by the various linguistic communities. There may have been a religious element to those schools as well. I’m not sure, since I never attended one.
But today’s world is radically different, with extremist views possibly being inculcated into children. I think governments should be vigilant and try to integrate rather than isolate certain segments of society by “accommodating” them.
I was not born in Canada. I’ve always had a difficult time trying to understand those immigrants who take the trouble to leave their own country and then try to set up here in this country the exact same conditions they left behind. To me, immigration means adaptation to new circumstances and surroundings. And leaving behind some “old country” ways and beliefs.
As far as I’m concerned, schools should be places where children — and in the niqab case, adults — from different backgrounds get to know each other, to learn to live and get along with others from various backgrounds. If parents request religious instruction for their children, it should be under the school’s supervision and monitoring, not in a different and isolated setting, such as a daycare or faith-based school. And adult-education classes should not be accommodating students on religious grounds.
Isn’t this insistence on faith-based schools another problematic facet of multiculturalism?
“This woman was insisting on being part of Quebec society, on integrating”. How outrageous! If covering yourself from head to toe, including the face is considered integrating or being part of our society we better wake up. It appears Quebec has gotten ahead of the matter,the declaration from Herouxville may yet become necessary across the country.
How many of us would be comfortable dealing with someone whose face we cannot see beyond eyes peeking through a slit? Our Charter, multicultural policies and HRC’s are a magnet for those who have no intention of integrating. More astounding is the silence of the likes of Judy Rebick et al.
It’s an insidious matter we should all be very concerned about.Jason Kenney needs to hear from those of us who are concerned about this issue, I’m sure he’s well aware of it. We can’t allow this country to become divided through immigration.
As Tarek Fatah points out,
“it’s got nothing to do with religion.”
We have to thank multi-culturalism for all of this nonsense. It only serves to divide. It appears that only Quebec is taking the bull by the horns in dealing with this issue. Of course, Quebec is fiercely protective of her culture while the rest of Canada sleepwalks. Maybe it’s time to protect fiercely the Canadian culture. On another point, we need only to look at bilingualism as a force of divisiveness in our country. So what do we do, we bring in multi-culturalism.
Well then, perhaps the other women in that class should show up in g-string bikinis…..how would that go over?
Bravo Quebec!
All we need to do is look at the trials and tribulations Europe is facing….do we want to end up like that???
NO!
how would that go over?
Probably very well with the men.
Isn’t this insistence on faith-based schools another problematic facet of multiculturalism?
Gabby, I agree. And I am shocked that this is even being considered after the John Tory debacle in Ontario.
Yep, Gabby’s argument against fb schools are exactly what Dalton’s oppo. team spun that pretty much killed the PCs in Ontario.
The trouble in Ontario of course is the sheer hypocrisy of funding one religion – Catholic schools and not any other, AND, that within some school boards, TDSB in particular it’s ok to have schools based on language(Ukrainian Heritage only), culture and race Africentric schools, and have the taxpayers pay for that. It’s ok to divide schools under boards but not privately?
Also, note that all registered private schools must comply with some MOE guidelines. They in fact are listed at the MOE site.
I attended a Saturday language school, but, I also attended public school where in my elementary years the first half hour was Bible study, where all the kids of all nationalities read the Bible, sang hymns, etc.etc.
Showing up in public with my face covered, I would not expect my insistence? on integrating, to be taken seriously. I really have no idea how someone could want to bring the more misogynistic practices they left to where they immigrated, hopefully to a better life. Funding religious “schools” is a very bad idea, it isolates, permits indoctrination IMO. This is Canada the only people who wear face coverings routinely are Surgeons, Welders, and yes our Fine Canadian Hockey players!
When I see the grief in Europe, England over people immigrating who have no desire in intergrate, demanding accommodation of themselves and their quaint customs, this is an issue which must be faced, pun intended. Of course right on cue comes the HRC complaint, and the loud complaining by the usual crowd. We welcome immigrants, asking that you accept us and our customs is no imposition, if you feel it is perhaps staying where you are should be considered.
Good on Quebec!
Totally off topic, sorry but has anyone seen the latest on the Afghan detainee debacle over at the CBC website?
[Quote] In an exclusive interview with CBC News, Eillen Olexiuk, who arrived in Afghanistan in 2002 and was second in command at the Canadian Embassy in Kabul, said she told the Liberal government then in power that the transfer agreement didn’t do enough to protect detainees.
P.O.V.:
Canadian officials at the time weren’t monitoring detainees after the transfer, and that left detainees vulnerable to torture once they were in Afghan hands, said Olexiuk, who met with torture victims during her three years in Afghanistan.
She had also written three different human rights reports over three years warning that torture was a common problem in Afghanistan.
But Olexiuk said her advice was ignored by Paul Martin’s government.
“I don’t think anybody really cared, quite frankly,” she said. [End Quote]
http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/03/09/detainee-afghan-diplomat.html#socialcomments
Interesting development. And just to be clear, John McCallum would likely have been the guy receiving these reports. Can you say hypocrites !!!
wilson says at 11:37 am:
“Well then, perhaps the other women in that class should show up in g-string bikinis…”
Well, gee, I have no objection to that. It would certainly make classes quite stimulating. Heh, heh, heh. LOL
There is a real problem here in distinguishing between our legitimate dislike and distrust of Islam and the right of free individuals in a free society to practice their religion in the way they see fit so long as it does no harm to anyone else in that free society. I don’t like the niqab or the burqua but so long as nuns wear habits, priests wear collars, Jews wear yarmulkes, Mennonites wear snoods, the Dali Lama doesn’t wear pants, the Pope wears a beanie then religious attire is the choice of the one wearing it. Our concern here needs to be Islam, its ideals, goals and methods of attaining said goals here not the wearing of cloth.
Tarek Fatah, is an interesting and wise man. Every time he is on the agenda for an interview, I tune in and thoroughly enjoy his truth and common sense.
On the other topic brought up here,I am a fb supporter because they have worked here in Alberta with the Charter School program. I just feel that they are part of the fabric and everyday choices in our school systems VS the approach taken in other provinces that left them misunderstood and poorly explained.
The dollars follow the child rather than the dollars following THE SYSTEM.
Shrug – that Afghan stuff is finally coming out of hiding, except no bloggers are talking about it. Must be the first time in history that the CBC is scooping bloggers.
Looks like the Liberals knew more about this issue than they let on and of course Iffy wasn’t in the country then so I’m pretty sure his handlers mightn’t have yet told him the truth and how idiotic he looks wasting Question Period with his diversions.
I’m not watching QP any more this week – it stinks to be quite honest.
Gabby: “I’ve always had a difficult time trying to understand those immigrants who take the trouble to leave their own country and then try to set up here in this country the exact same conditions they left behind.”
I think it’s called having their cake and eating it too. They enjoy all of the democratic freedoms and privileges of citizenship here in Canada, of which they were deprived in their country of origin, but insist that their way, their culture, is better than ours.
It’s ridiculous — and, what’s more ridiculous, is our letting them get away with it. Good for the Quebec government for kicking this face-covered Muslim woman out of her school. That’s what all right-minded Canadian institutions should be doing. It’s an affront to our freedom, let alone our security, for anyone, male or female, to go around completely covered up in public.
When I see a veiled Muslim woman on the street, I want to yell at her, “TAKE THAT DAMNED THING OFF!” I feel nothing but contempt for the “culture” that insists that women have to be covered up BECAUSE THEIR MEN MIGHT BE TEMPTED TO SOME IMPROPRIETY. I want to yell at Muslim men who think this way, “GROW UP! SMARTEN UP!” “TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN BEHAVIOUR AND STOP SCAPEGOATING YOUR WOMEN.”
Richco: “The trouble in Ontario of course is the sheer hypocrisy of funding one religion – Catholic schools and not any other …”
The rights of Catholics are enshrined in the BNA, Richco, that’s why it’s legal, and not really hypocritical, for Ontario to have Catholic School Boards. Ironically, when these laws were being written, it was never anticipated that British Protestants would ever be in a minority situation. That’s the real irony: British Protestant Christians in Canada have pretty much had all of their rights abrogated in the educational system because it never occurred to the lawmakers back then that they would be relegated to minority status in Canada, whereas Catholics, being a minority back then, had their religious rights enshrined in our laws.
Unintended consequences …
Hidden Islam exposed.
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“The airing of the 10-minute film — which depicts Muslim women wearing transparent veils that exposed their naked bodies covered in verses from the Koran”.
“Telling Her Story — Ayaan Hirsi Ali”
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2854474&page=1
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“Ambassador calls for divorce after veil-wearing Muslim bride reveals a beard and crossed eyes
The would-be bride had hidden her face behind a Muslim niqab throughout their short courtship, meaning the diplomat had no idea what she looked like.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1249922/Ambassador-calls-divorce-veil-wearing-bride-reveals-beard-crossed-eyes.html
In Liberal Land:
Liberal Ignatieff = Liberal Dion.
Translation: Liberal Iffy = Citoyen Dionky.
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““We are pulling a ‘Dion’,” says the insider, referring to the fact that under Mr. Dion’s leadership the Liberals made sure the government did not fall. “Some members will be out of the House for ‘riding events.’”
“Tories question Michael Ignatieff’s economic chops
Jane Taber”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/tories-question-michael-ignatieffs-economic-chops/article1496591/
http://www.newswatchcanada.ca/
Both The National Post‘s John Ivison and former NDP strategist Ian Capstick suggested on Power & Politics that the niqab issue was primarily a Quebec issue.
I find that suggestion simultaneously naive and offensive.
Naive, because it’s dismissive of the very real concerns such flouting of our Canadian conventions brings up.
Offensive because they both are intimating that Quebec is somehow racist — although the word was never uttered.
Both gentlemen are voicing the same platitudes of “tolerance” that are slowly gnawing away at our own Canadian conventions. In Canada people do not circulate in our streets and malls with their face hidden. I don’t see why someone who’s come to Canada seeking a new beginning should insist not only that it’s her right to do so, but that she’s seeking some form of compensation from the Human Rights Commission for being asked to shed her face covering.
Hijabs and chadors are one thing; niqabs and burkas are quite another. I hope governments, be it municipal, provincial or federal, actively discourage the wearing of such garments.
Maz2 – I just put up a new post containing that Taber link. What a coincidence!