Michael Ignatieff has an imitable talent for getting himself into unnecessary jams. I suspect this comes from a lack of political acumen and his own arrogant belief that once the professor speaks, the world will unfold according to his will. Then reality smacks him on the head.
Tactically, it was totally unnecessary to call for a whipped vote on the HST. He could have allowed his MPs some flexibility. The legislation will still pass with the Bloc’s support. This would have allowed the Ontario and BC Liberal caucus members to vote according to their constituents’ wishes and yet the outcome would still be the same.
Granted he would still have risked angering the provincial counterparts but it would have been on the shoulders of each MP to make that decision about what was the greater risk – losing constituents support or the help of their provincial cousins when an election is called.
Instead Michael Ignatieff arrogantly made a one size fits all decision without considering the repercussions on his Ontario and BC caucus.
Will we see a repeat of the Newfoundland fiasco?
I predict a ‘one-time’ vote of protest.
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Related:
Harmonized tax strikes discord – Lorrie Goldstein:
…To add insult to injury, all federal taxpayers will now be conscripted into paying $5.9 billion to the governments of B.C. and Ontario so they can impose a 12% HST in B.C. and a 13% HST in Ontario that the majority of citizens in both provinces don’t want. Let’s just call this what it is — taxation without representation…
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Thursday Update:
Liberal MPs opposed to HST likely to fall in line – Gloria Galloway
Ottawa paves way for HST approval in Ont., B.C. – CTV:
…Up to 15 Liberal MPs were absent from the vote.
The high absentee rate Thursday may be due to the fact that before the vote, some Liberal MPs said they did not agree with the tax, but felt compelled to vote along party lines.
Liberal Party Leader Michael Ignatieff blamed the absenteeism on the timing of the vote, and not on any disagreement within his party.
“I came out of the lobby having voted and there were 15 of my members in the back lobby just because the vote was accelerated,” Ignatieff told reporters after the vote passed.
“You’ll see on the subsequent votes that this caucus is united,” he said.
B.C. Liberal Keith Martin was campaigning against the bill as recently as Tuesday….
“The legislation will still pass with the Bloc’s support.”
I can only imagine the outrage in BC if they woke up to find out Separatists were setting BC tax policy, or so the spin would go.
Living in Ontario, I’m not too happy about it myself.
Son’t believe for one iota that the HST will be pinned on the opposition and the premiers.Flaherty is running around tripping over himself pitching the HST -Harper Sales Tax.
Iggy’s definitely placed himself ‘tween a rock and a hard place on this one. You’d think he’d have learned how to avoid boxing himself into corners by now. He operates on the assumption when he’s speaking at one end of the country no one in the rest of the country will find out what he said. Since only the Dipps are against,this is the perfect time to allow a free vote,avoid the risk of some of his caucus going rogue and his leadership taking another hit.
Perhaps he’s still in professorial mode, loaded with ideas but unable to decipher which is the right decision on any given issue, leaving it to someone else. Was it Donolo or Iggy who decided?
It should be fun to watch Ujaal Dosanjh vote for the “Harper Sales Tax”, he’s been spouting off aplenty. The Toronto gang look like scared rabbits too.
Are there any Ont MP’s opposed? Moat of the posturing I have seen has been supportive.
Ignatieff must whip the vote on this one because of the enormous criticism he received from the Lib base over the long gun.
He has looked weak and this reining in the troops is purely political leadership stuff. He is now supposed to appear in command. My take…..
I watched Martin and some other MP from BC{ whose english is so bad it was laughable} being interviewed about Iffy’s decision. Martin said he had not made up his mind how he would vote. The other doofus gushed how wonderful Iffy was for consulting caucus. Maybe this issue can be used to stir up local sentiment against the BC and Ont Liberals
Iffy’s Sales Tax.
Iffy’s IST.
Pundit says:
“It was not the first time Mr. Ignatieff has shown bold leadership in the face of opposition from a large number of his MPs, but it was the first time he has shown bold leadership that was not, at the same time, suicidal.”
Iffy’s hubris:
“A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
Surely Iffy the intellectual/scholar knows the source of those words.
…-
“Ignatieff stares down his MPs
Liberals will support HST”
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2292693
Flash back to the six week period before Flaherty’s January budget. What was Iggy doing during that Parliamentary down-time ? Finishing off his silly True Patriot Love book.
What he SHOULD have been doing was going over all the federal files, and coming up with Liberal positions that were coherent and consistent.
Anwway, it’s too late now. Iggy didn’t do his homework, and now he’s going to pay a steep price. Either his caucus sends him packing, or voters will.
I’m sure Chretien must be disgusted that Ignatieff didn’t go for broke and flip-flop on the HST issue.
This is too funny! Ignatieff can’t make the right decision here – every choice is a bad choice for him. Support, abstain or oppose… HA!
If the 5 BC and 38 Ontario MPs vote against,
that’s over half of Iffy’s caucus!!
What a spectacle that would be…the majority of your caucus against you. lol wouldn’t Jack love that picture on the front page of the G&M
Iffy made his mistake by trying to make hay with the Harper Sales Tax.
Perhaps a little history into his own party’s long standing support of the HST would have been in order.
Oh, and keeping his word with the Premiers,
always a good thing when there are quotes galore.
What a rookie goof ball.
BCers and Ontarians have to go after their Premiers in protest, not the feds.
Feds don’t write nor prevent provincial tax policy.
Question,
if the BC and Ontario governments want to stimulate their economies ,
why don’t Campbell and McGuinty reduce their provincial portion of the HST in an amount equal to the increase tax revenue the HST generates,
then it’s not a tax grab and is a highly visible tax cut?
The billions in savings to corps/business on the accounting side will still be there, increasing productivity.
I don’t know what the big deal is. Here in Alberta, we’ve always had a harmonized sales tax since the very beginning.
Why are friends in the Conservative Party have even reduced it to a whopping 5%!!
Like I said, no big deal
There is a movement in the USA for a “fair tax” which is basically a national sales tax or a consumption tax. The little I have read about it (it is in Gov. Mike Huckabee’s book), there seems to be some merit – if there is a reduction in personal/corporate income tax. If the BC/Ont governments would give us a good reduction, I would be willing to support a HST system. As it is now it will cost me more money and I doubt that we will see much of a reduction in base prices from business.
Liberal Keefy Martin, Esquimalt Juan de Fuca , says he’s going to voate against, he’d rather face the wrath of Iffy than that of his constituents. Since Iffy is a pussy cat that doesn’t even scratch, wise move on Martin’s part if he wants to stay in politics. Last election he almost got to go back to practicing medicine.
Liz, yeah. Keith Martin would be wiser to defy his leader than his constituents.
Bit o/T here,but is Bob Fife extremely constipated from his long overseas flight to China?Have you seen his updates on the PM’s trip? Honest to Gawd..looks like his wife,or significant other must have packed some shorts that were 5 sizes too small,or he has just given up trying to hide his animosity toward PMSH.He is having trouble unclenching his teeth as he reports..so,this could mean there could be something positive coming out of this trip and Bobby will have to say something nice! What a moron.
Well Sammy, let’s hope their tongues and fingers get well constipated, none of the media following the PM are looking for anything positive but if they can catch him skipping off to the loo that will be their headline, we’ll know everything has gone to pot for them and the PM’s trip is a success.
Way to prime minister to report his report card from CHINA. that must hurt the media here, hevertheless the chinese business media reporters will do a far better job asking intelligent questions than from the ‘canadian mediagate reporters.
Question,
if the BC and Ontario governments want to stimulate their economies ,
why don’t Campbell and McGuinty reduce their provincial portion of the HST in an amount equal to the increase tax revenue the HST generates,
then it’s not a tax grab and is a highly visible tax cut?
Wilson, I totally agree. I could be persuaded to support the HST if the provincial portion were lowered a bit.
I don’t really care that Iffy’s continuing to trip over his tongue. Actually I encourage the LPOC to advise him to do more of the same because it just makes folks see what they would have had as PM if the coalition had managed to gel.
Sammy – saw Fife and I thought he was trying hard not to choke when the talking about how the Chinese gov’t thinks Harper’s visit will turn the relationship between the two countries around and start new.
Our PM’s newly released economic statement isn’t even on the LPOC radar today…I wonder why? With the exception of John McCallum insulting our Siberian friends the news must be very good for them to bury the report card Iffy insisted on having in the good old days….remember?
Are there any Ont MP’s opposed?
This article suggests they are secretly quite worried:
The Red-Green lines are drawn, er the “red lines” are drawn.
PM Harper, you know what a red line is. Get out of the AGW fraud. The game is over.
…-
“Big developing states reject Copenhagen climate plan
NEW DELHI/LONDON (Reuters) – China and other big developing nations rejected core targets for a climate deal such as halving world greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 just five days before talks start in Copenhagen, diplomats said on Wednesday.
China, the world’s top emitter, together with India, Brazil and South Africa demand that richer nations do more and have drawn “red lines” limiting what they themselves would accept, the diplomats told Reuters.
The four rejected key targets proposed by the Danish climate talks hosts in a draft text — halving global greenhouse gases by 2050, setting a 2020 deadline for a peak in world emissions, and limiting global warming to a maximum 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial times, European diplomats said.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091202/ts_nm/us_climate
Way to prime minister to report his report card from CHINA. that must hurt the media here,
Update….Layton left with egg on his face. He brought this up as a point of order today in the HOC….
FACT:….
The finance minister tabled the report at 5:20pm last night and sent emails to the members about the report, with attachments of it included.
Then the PM had his announcement 12 hours later…Another gotcha gone wrong for the press and the coalition party.
PS….and Terry Mileski was reporting from China saying things about PM Harper reported in the press.
The PM’s answer….”I didn’t check my reviews at the door”.
LOLOL I love it.!!
It was Layton who brought up the report card today in QP, saying it was released at 35000 feet, over Siberia, as far away as possible from the HoC.where it was supposed to be released.
On a point of order after QP it was tabled at 5.15pm, Ottawa time, and the Minister e-mailed every MP with the document. PMSH made his statement at 5.20a.m. Ottawa time, 12 hours after being tabled in the HofC.
Reminds me of the time the liberals held a very late night vote, when all opposition were gone, to get something passed. Preston Manning was furious.
Didn’t the ndp vote against lowering the GST, and will now vote against a tax increase.
I posted this on the BT forums, I’ll post it here too.
Harmonization is a good thing. It is the Ontario Liberal Government that is making it such a pain. And Harper gets blamed for not stepping in on a provincial decision. If McIdiot can’t lower the PST and do stuff to soften the blow, it’s on him.
The Hudak PCs are campaigning against an HST – This is false advertising. They won’t touch the HST, once it is in place, assuming they take power. An HST is a fiscally prudent move, and something that most fiscal conservatives wouldn’t really disapprove of. Assuming it is set up correctly that is. The Ontario Conservatives should be pushing to REFORM the HST as the Liberals have it planned.
Cut the PST, while making more things exempt, that’s what I say. But the Ontario Liberals won’t. Why? Because this is a way to refill their coffers with the way things as set to go.
The Feds won’t say they are opposed to this because as far as the PST goes and with regards to what gets taxed more, that’s a provincial matter. Plus, even if they did disagree, it isn’t (in the conservative mindset) the place of the Federal government to tell the Provinces and territories what to do with matters like this.
Could there be a black lash for the Federal Liberals and the Conservatives? Maybe so, but I think the main opposition of the people needs to be directed at the Ontario and BC Government for taking full advantage us in these tough times.
Sent this to Power Play
Hello Jane…..your guests are behind on what all of Canada knows. The finance minister released the report card to the coalition yesterday at 5:20pm and also sent an email to the HOC members along with attachments of the document. Then 12 hours later the Pm talked about it. Surprised your guests are so behind in the news? is the show taped? What a serious boo boo. Doesn’t make the show look crediable. Jack Layton had egg on his face when he brought this up in the HOC after QP and was told the REAL facts. Let Bob Fife know and the rest of your staff….too funny.
Nice try David K.
This conservative will blame BOTH levels of government. People can say it is provincial jurisdiction all they want but federal taxpayers money is going into the provincial pots and the feds could have said no before it was too late. Mr. Flaherty was pushing the HST even when he was Finance Minister of Ontario. And, the Hudak PC’s now, too little too late.
The streamlining revenue neutral stuff is all crap. I heard a businessman on the radio today saying his expenses would be going up too so he wouldn’t be able to pass on any savings, because there wouldn’t be any.
We just got our retirement major health benefits insurance information for next year. In anticipation of the HST, our rates will be going up forty dollars A MONTH. And, that is just one item. Just wait for our hydro and heating bills.
In fact, I am so pi__ed off, I may just stay home during the next federal election. I mean, how on earth can a Conservative supporter and former Conservative blogger (yes, former as I am no longer on the BT aggregator), support a government that is “enabling” one of the worst tax hikes in Ontario history?
Oh yes, I expect the Conservative gov’t will get a majority next time. The alternative is not even worth thinking about. But, lose supporters, you bet. Big time!
Call me crazy but I had to send a PS….
Hello again Jane….your guests Jim Travesty and Captain Rogers should get their facts straight…..tell them to do some WORK instead of untrue gossip and smear slandering reports. On CBC a woman was on,(sorry didn’t catch her name but CBC has it) who said 40 + visits by her to the detainee’s and NO TORTURE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!She was on the committee before the HOC today along with 2 other people….no turture by all three. Someone on the ground. Not in Ottawa. Also the flight and the report card is pure gossip and lets take a step back….5:20pm yesterday it was tabled in the HOC and emails sent with attachments of the report to all members. Jack Layton has egg on his face …..now.along with that dispicable James Travisty(never said a good word about the PM) and Rogers who wasn’t invited back onto the PM’s trip because his reporting is so VILE. Why does CTV keep inviting these KNOW Liberal guests to the show and on Sundays QP? Too laughable. Canadians are laughing at the show…..Sorry. Where’s Greg Weston? The 3 stoughes…..comical.
Ontario Girl, glad someone else caught that point of order today. Guess the staff in all those mps officers don’t check their e-mail.
What did the Brian inquiry cost. Do we really want to spend that kind of money again on a useless faux scandal.
If anyone is guilty of torture it is the media, with their daily dispersing of lies.
Liberal Iffy’s IST: Iffy’s Sales Tax.
Iffy is trapped.
Iffy’s Sales Tax: Iffy’s Apple of Discord.
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“HST vote splits B.C.’s Liberal MPs”
“Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca MP Keith Martin said he’ll try to convince his colleagues they’re mistaken in supporting Ignatieff on the legislation.”
“Martin said he’s in “negotiations with the leadership of my party to see if we can find an alternative way of dealing with this”.”
“But Ujjal Dosanjh, the Liberal MP for Vancouver South, who once spoke out against the HST, said it is important that federal Liberals support the tax now.”
http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2009/12/02/bc-hst-vote-liberal-mp.html
Do we really want to spend that kind of money again on a useless faux scandal
Mary…apparently an inquiry would cost up to $15 million and the coalition is talking about the deficet???
Also, not shown on the news channel today….the Torture committee had witnesses today.???Seems 3 more witnesses who are slamming COLVINS testamony. Guess thats why it’s so hush hush with the media.
James Travers could hardly sit in his seat tonight on Power play…wiggling around…all puffed up with the flight above Siberia fake story……bet that will be his column next. No checking…no facts…but that would get in the way of his Harper smearing reports. What a loser…..laughing my head off.
Ontario Girl, we can expect a correction from whoever is doing PP tomorrow,if not we can demand it from CTV, if they’re into reporting facts and being a credible news source they’ll do so.
The Coalition is hell bent on calling an inquiry on Colvin’s testimony alone, he’s their man, he speaks to their agenda even though he cannot prove anything he has presented as factual.
Forget the Generals,the Red Cross, Colvin is king in this latest gotcha episode.
Watched global national tonight and they had the story of those women denying torture today at the committee, plus they showed PMSH getting off the plane, in China and giving his speech on solid ground. Layton, pay attention.
Waiting for something rotten to occur in Denmark in a few days re AGW. Bet our PM will not let us down.
Sandy,
I’m not saying that the Federal government won’t benefit at all but come on! If you look at the big picture, where does the final say land? Not in Ottawa but at Queen’s Park. And yes, Flaherty was pushing for it, so what? As I said if its done right harmonization is good. It’s good for businesses – Small, medium, and big. On the provincial level, the PST should be cut and more things should be exempt, as I’ve stated.
The House of Commons is only involved in this because the act of harmonization of the Federal and Provincial taxes in to a single rate needs to be approved at both levels. As far as what is taxed more, less or not at all, that’s up to the Ontario government and the MPPs in the Legislature to decide. I’m not going to blame the Federal Conservatives because the Ontario Liberals are being money-grubbers. That’s all on McSlippery, regardless of what people say.
David K is right.
What Hudak needs to do now is decide how he can help Ontarians when he get elected to Premier in 2011 that will counter the financial stress the McGuinty government have leveraged on folks.
The opposition was too slow off the mark to represent or lead any type of revolt against the HST.
I don’t like it either but this is McGuinty’s baby.
re: Torture issue & public inquiry – I like that Harper has said no to the inquiry. The Coalition is BACK on this issue and let them bring the house down and call an election if they’re so convinced that Colvin’s squeaky clean and telling the truth.