OK. Let me see if I’ve got this straight.
First we have the Federal Conservatives teaming up with the Ontario and BC Liberals. But apparently the H$T was originally championed by the former Liberal government.
And yet the Ontario NDP party is reaching out to the Federal Grits, in an attempt to torpedo the enabling legislation.
The Bloc and the Federal NDP oppose the HST, which puts the Federal Liberals in a difficult position.
The Ontario Progressive Conservatives and the Ontario NDP Party are united in their opposition to the Dalton tax, and even Santa’s getting dragged into it!
And Jack Layton is seizing a golden opportunity to make hay on the back of the two major federal parties.
And who said politics is boring?
* * * *
Big Update:
Flaherty Wins Bloc Support to Merge Sales Taxes With Provinces - Bloomberg (H/T Fh)
So now Duceppe will be making it a foursome with Harper, McGuinty and Campbell. Who knew?
CARP members vehemently disapprove of harmonization: CARP poll. And remember how many Boomers are out there, Dalton???
“In addition to supporting the call for province wide consultations, CARP is calling for rebates and tax credits that will target those most adversely affected by the new provincial tax burden envisioned by harmonization. If the government can make deals with the housing construction and mutual funds industries, then it can certainly help people who can least afford to bear the brunt of the new consumer taxes”, added Eng.
* * * *
Saturday Update:
Analysis: HST issue toxic — handle with utmost care – Star
Mrs. Dion’s BedBugs.
Strangers bamming Kyoto? Now, go to sleep.
Mrs. Dion’s nightmare: The Liberal Party swallowed by the socialist Separatist Coalition.
“Janine Krieber’s Facebook note”
>>> “Like all the liberal parties in Europe, it will become a poor little thing at the mercy of ephemeral coalitions.”
…-
>>> Mrs. Dion’s nightmare here:
“This is a new world for national leaders used to majority government, such as Mr Brown. Others, like Mr Sarkozy, have cleverly used the threat of parliamentary hostility to kill candidates they dislike. It is a world of coalition deals, quotas and procedural ambushes. We are all Belgians now.”
“Charlemagne
We are all Belgians now
How the European Union’s horse-trading over top jobs reflects murky coalition-building”
http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14963491
Fascinating stuff!
Add to this discussion,
that no federal govt has ever disallowed any other provincial government to harmonize taxes (correct me if I am wrong),
so why single out BC and Ontario,
and stop a province from implimenting their own taxation legislation?
Grant Devine implimented the HST, Roy Romano promised to reverse the HST and won the election by a landslide, and reversed the Sask HST.
Add to this discussion,
that no federal govt has ever disallowed any other provincial government to harmonize taxes (correct me if I am wrong),
so why single out BC and Ontario,
and stop a province from implimenting their own taxation legislation?
Yes, good point Wilson. It’s really up to the provinces what they want to do here. I mean the final decision rests with them assuming that the Canadian Parliament passes the legislation. I don’t know exactly how it all works, but if the provinces wanted to do something in that area and the Federal Government opposed it, I think it could cause a lot of problems.
Again, I’m no expert here.
the Government of Canada has gained the support of the Bloc for HST legislation to pass
see article at National Newswatch
fh
Wow. Thanks Fh. What a strange turn of events!
[...] Flaherty Wins Bloc Support to Merge Sales Taxes With Provinces – Bloomberg (H/T Fh) [...]
“Add to this discussion,
that no federal govt has ever disallowed any other provincial government to harmonize taxes (correct me if I am wrong),
so why single out BC and Ontario,
and stop a province from implementing their own taxation legislation?”
I have been trying to plant this truth seed, this entire time and cannot for the life of me understand WHY voters are permitting themselves to be so bamboozled and blaming the federal govt. That aspect, is the Lefts propaganda machine at work and completely takes the onus off of the Provincial Governments.
Where was this debate when the other provinces harmonized their taxes under a Liberal govt?
I can’t believe this blame game going on!
The Feds should be patted on the back for their financial support over the hump stage.
This whole thing has been badly communicated and the 2 Liberal provincial govt are to blame for that imo.
Wilson asked: “Add to this discussion,
that no federal govt has ever disallowed any other provincial government to harmonize taxes (correct me if I am wrong), so why single out BC and Ontario, and stop a province from implimenting their own taxation legislation?
Grant Devine implimented the HST, Roy Romano promised to reverse the HST and won the election by a landslide, and reversed the Sask HST.”
As noted in another thread, Wilson, no federal government has ever put it to a vote in Parliament for that very reason. If the provinces want it then, by Order in Council, the federal government can implement it. No “framework” legislation is required.
Section 86 is crystal clear, once the feds agree to a harmonized sale agreement, “the payments paid under a sales tax harmonization agreement under the authority of section 8.4 or 8.5 may be made without any other or further appropriation or authority“.
So why would Harper try to undermine his own efforts to push HST, his own promise to implement HST, his own agreement with Ontario and BC by bringing it to an unnecessary vote in Parliament???
As for Bec’s question about why the feds are being pinned for this, that is obvious. Harper has been pushing this for years and has offered BC and Ontario about $6 billion to do it.
I’d understand your frustration if the provincial governments were not being pinned as well, but they are and moreso than Harper, understandably. But Harper’s attempt to pass the buck with this motion is not going to relieve him of his role in pushing higher taxes onto over half the population of the country.
Sorry, didn’t close the italics there. The quotation portion ends after the words ” may be made without any other or further appropriation or authority”.
I fixed it Ted. You had a b instead of an i for the closing code.
With reference to your section 86, I find it puzzling that the opposition parties don’t make more of this.
Could the answer be, there are supporting ‘hump funds’ involved?
WHat does Harper stand for? He’s for things or against things based on the wedge he can drive at the moment. Is this the principled conservatism that you hoped for?
We seem to forget that even a planned leak can be a strategy.
Doesn’t Quebec already have a type of harmonized tax?
Bec – Ontario has been asleep at the HST switch for well over a year, yet even now the wave of objection is more like a ripple. I think that people are just paralyzed by the really shitty year they’ve had and the idea of being had again just make people turn turtle and hunker down in their nests. The apathy is this province is thick and Dalton knows it.
Every time Dalton opens his mouth I can’t stand how he drips with arrogance as he once again tells us what’s good for us. I think I have a clear picture of what’s good for Ontario and it’s not 4 more years of Liberals!
OFF Topic: just listened to a bit of the Environment Committee debate NDP bill C311 Climate change Accountability ACT. The three Libs on the committee David McGuinty, Francis Scarpelgia and Junior Trudeau their entire time was spent critizing the government because they have no plan, and Prentiss was going to Copenhagen with a blank sheet. The three witness from the U.S.
must be wondering why they wasted their time to come and hear political gameship coming from LPOC.
o/t Charles Adler had a great show today. He talked about the last week in Ottawa about the detainee issue. He is angry at the opposition and all the talking heads. Says they are trashing our troops and the country. http://www.am770chqr.com/Station/AudioVault.aspx Click on the 2:00pm goes on after the bottom of the hour after the news for awhile with callers.
Interesting Richco @ 4:52pm I would concur, that the timing and lack of communication from the Provincial leadership is inconvenient and arrogant at the very least but I am concerned when I hear Conservatives so angry at the federal government without clearly explaining that part of it to me.
If the vote in the HoC is a strategy, I get that but I also see it as transparency.
It’s complicated, isn’t it?
The HST is only as good as the provincial governments who manage it, McGuinty in Ontario scares the Hell out of me. I’m totally against any more taxes on such things we must pay like Hydro, Water and sewer right on down to haircuts.
My Conservative MP will be hearing from me, so will the rest of them. It appears they’re all instructed to vote for it so we’ll see, sounds an awful lot like whipped vote.
WUWT?
…-
“Climategate protester pawns CBC on live TV
27 11 2009
How interesting that it has now risen to this level. Climategate? Quel Climategate?”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/27/climategate-protester-pawns-cbc-on-live-tv/#more-13297
The HST is one part of Flaherty’s Advantage Canada project, to make Canada more business-friendly. He also wants to bring the federal corporate tax rate down to 15 %, and have each province’s rate at 10 %. And have a National Securities Regulator, break down inter-provincial trade barriers, and improve labor mobility. And then there are the free trade deals being negotiated around the world. Include our one-payer Health Care System, and Canada becomes an even better place to set up business.
McGuinty was initially against the HST and the 10 % corporate tax objective, but he has come around to Flaherty’s way of thinking. He should sell it as a way of reducing the deficit, and eventually, the debt.
lol! Thanks Maz2!
[...] Maz2) Filed under Big Environment, Big Green, Bye-bye CBC, CBC passed best date, Climategate, [...]
Rae says”I’m skating”. Iggy says “I’ll decide in my own sweet time”
This is typical Liberal. Decide how to vote not on the merits of the issue before you but decide based on political considerations.
The Liberals stand for nothing except gaining power.
He should sell it as a way of reducing the deficit, and eventually, the debt.
CJ, I could buy into that except that I see it as a tax shift away from big manufacturing business and onto small business and consumers. Please tell me where I’m wrong here. Thanks.
This is typical Liberal. Decide how to vote not on the merits of the issue before you but decide based on political considerations.
Ah yes. The actual value of the HST vs. strategic considerations. But I thought only Conservatives did that, according to MSM?
WOW! This article is a great analysis of the current state of the Liberal party.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/party+scorned+Federal+Liberals+having+very+year/2277871/story.html
Joanne @ 8:10 pm
I’m not entering into your question to CJ although I hopes that he answers it.
However I do want to remind everyone that is not an Albertan, Alberta sucked it up big time to slay the Provincial deficit in the mid 90′s and on.You guys have no idea the sacrifices.
I see this in a similar way for Ontario because it was Ontarian that elected a spending government and now, they need to figure out a way to slay the debt,pay for their election decision and create the climate for investment and prosperity.
McGuinty and his team, have let their voters down big time and they are pathetic at creativity other than spend, spend, spend but the voters picked them and seem to still demand their programs and lifestyle. It’s confusing….
The question I would be asking of the other 2 parties is, “if you are against this, will you reverse it, if elected”….
This is becoming so emotional, I absolutely agree with everyone on that file.
Ted,
listen very carefully while I explain something to you.
The last thing McGuinty/Campbell wanted was the next PM,
not sticking to the HST agreement.
At the time the (linked) agreement was made,
in March 2009 , Iffy still had a chance of winning the next election,
and there is always that pesky coalition of losers lurking around every corner.
So, as an assurance to the 2 Liberal Premiers that Iffy wouldn’t pull a fast one and leave them high and dry,
the Harper government agreed to table legislation,
something Iffy would not dare flip flop on later.
here it is
”Canada agrees to introduce legislation to enable the tax policy flexibility noted herein.”
http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/en/agreements/moa_cita.html
Richco, in Quebec we pay 5% + 7.5% in taxes. First, they take the 5% and add it to the total of our bill. Then Quebec takes its 7.5% of the total bill and adds it to make a new total. In effect, Quebec ends up with more than 7.5%. It’s been like that for years. Example: hydro bill:$100. X 5% GST =$5. + $100. =$105. Then $105. X 7.5% PST = $7.88 + $105. = $112.88 You really notice it!! Just imagine buying a new door for 2000 bucks and then adding $257.50 in taxes!! And then there’s Alberta with no provincial sales tax. I think I’m going to Alberta.
Hey, move to Alberta, no sales tax-yet.
Thanks Ed. I couldn’t remember.
For those with time on their hands this morning watch The Agenda on TVO – I think it repeats this morning. It’s worth it as Pakin and his guests talk about how McGuinty might yet again be elected next provincial election and why the PC might lose it. Scary stuff.
Richco, I personally plan to get very involved in the next provincial election – both on my blog and with shoes on the ground. This one will be so important.
Iffy has verbally agreed, telling McGuinty he would honor a Canada-Ontario HST agreement,
(see agreement 9:15 pm above)
and now he can’t decide if he will honor his word…?
That spells IFFY.
This should be a no brainer,
but maybe it’s not just the issue that is a ‘no brainer’, eh!
It is hilarious watching the no mind msm try to spin this into the evil Harper cornering Iffy,
when the real issue is Iffy, Iffy wants to take his ‘own sweet time’ (yah, he said that) to decide if he will honor his word.
I have never seen such a useless tool in such a high position in my life.
It is hilarious watching the no mind msm try to spin this into the evil Harper cornering Iffy,
when the real issue is Iffy, Iffy wants to take his ‘own sweet time’ (yah, he said that) to decide if he will honor his word.
Good point Wilson. Wow. I wish I had more time.
>>> “a year from hell for what was once but is manifestly no longer Canada’s mightiest political party.”
PET Cemetery FAT Strange BedFellows Award go to Liberal MPs Brison and Michelle Simson.
Congratulations to the “scorned” DeadEnd Liberal Party*.
“A party scorned: Federal Liberals are having a very bad year*”
…-
[Liberal] “Brison apologizes for remark
MP taunted Tory about his weight”
http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/1155029.html
…-
“*A party scorned: Federal Liberals are having a very bad year”
“If anything, the Liberal Party looks to be in worse shape and with dimmer prospects than at any time in the past half century, worse possibly than since the days they were up against John A. Macdonald.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/party+scorned+Federal+Liberals+having+very+year/2277871/story.html
India is now Canada’s most crucial/important ally in Asia.
India is a bulwark in the war against Islam.
This deal is crucial to Saskatchewan* and for Canada.
…-
“Canada, India ink nuclear deal
“Ottawa and Delhi have concluded negotiations on a deal allowing Canadian companies to resume sales of uranium and nuclear technology to India for the first time since it used Canada’s technology to develop warheads 35 years ago.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper, whose minority government is eagerly courting Indo-Canadian voters and India’s nuclear industry market, made the announcement today while at a Commonwealth leaders’ summit in Port of Spain, Trinidad.
“This agreement is a testimony to the undeniable potential that Canada and India can offer each other and the world,” Mr. Harper said in a statement after meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-india-ink-nuclear-deal/article1381488/
…-
*Saskatchewan:
“Uranium
A significant portion of the world’s known uranium resources are located in Saskatchewan. Uranium deposits in Saskatchewan’s are large, contain high-grade ore and can be extracted at production costs below those in many other parts of the world. Saskatchewan’s uranium resources are sufficient for more than 40 years at current rates of production.”
http://www.ir.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=3564,3541,3538,3385,2936,Documents
[...] Wilson so aptly pointed out, Michael Ignatieff is planning to take “his own sweet time” to [...]
“University of East Anglia U-turn in climate
change row
Leading British scientists at the University of East Anglia, who were accused of manipulating climate change data, have agreed to publish their figures in full.
David Holland is seeking prosecutions against some of Britain’s most eminent academics for allegedly holding back information in breach of disclosure laws.
The U-turn by the university follows a week of controversy after the emergence of hundreds of leaked emails, “stolen” by hackers and published online, triggered claims that the academics had massaged statistics.
In a statement welcomed by climate change sceptics, the university said it would make all the data accessible as soon as possible, once its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) had negotiated its release from a range of non-publication agreements.
The publication will be carried out in collaboration with the Met Office Hadley Centre. The full data, when disclosed, is certain to be scrutinised by both sides in the fierce debate.
A grandfather with a training in electrical engineering dating back more than 40 years emerged from the leaked emails as a leading climate sceptic trying to bring down the scientific establishment on global warming.
David Holland, who describes himself as a David taking on the Goliath that is the prevailing scientific consensus, is seeking prosecutions against some of Britain’s most eminent academics for allegedly holding back information in breach of disclosure laws.
Mr Holland, of Northampton, complained to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) last week after the leaked emails included several Freedom of Information requests he had submitted to the CRU, and scientists’ private responses to them.” (more)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2396009/posts
*A warmer goes for His driving test. During the test the instructor says to the warmer, “Can you make a CRU – turn?”
The warmer replies. “No, but I can make Mao Stlong’s eyes water.”
Submitted by calamjo
Edited by Curtis”
(redneckjokes)
Yes, good point Wilson. It’s really up to the provinces what they want to do here.
Joanne, as I’ve suggested before, harmonization is the correct thing to do, as long as it’s revenue neutral, i.e., reducing the overall rate, rather than cutting cheques for everyone. The CPC is pushing this, not responding to the provinces.