As a political strategist, Stephen Harper has no competition.
An upcoming federal vote on the HST will force Michael Ignatieff to fish or cut bait. (See where have we heard that expression before?)
The sweet deal here is that it won’t be a confidence vote so Iffy can’t back it and simply claim that if he didn’t there would be an unwanted election.
So now here is Iffy’s dilemma:
If he does in fact vote for the HST he risks bleeding voter support to the left in Ontario and BC. The NDP will happily pull in those votes.
If he votes against the HST, he risks vexing the Liberal premiers in those provinces and he may lose access to their electoral machines.
I predict that a raging pandemic of H1ST1 flu will hit the Liberal caucus in December.
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(H/T Kirk West)
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Big Update:
Flaherty Wins Bloc Support to Merge Sales Taxes With Provinces - Bloomberg (H/T Fh)
(Also added to the next post)
Pure Harper genius.
That’s all I can say.
This move speaks for itself and Canada will see once again what the leader of the Liberals is made of besides thinking thoughts and trying to re-gift the Green Shift(does anyone really believe he’s put that to bed?)
Truthfully, this looks bad on Harper as another tax grab, Flaherty singing the praise of the HST.
What will Dondeluded do with this? Harper is a genuis.
I’m not sure I like this game Harper is playing.
Sure, either way Iffy has egg on his face, but we also still run the real risk of having HST entrenched in law.
The GST was one of the big things that drove me away from the PCs. Lowering the GST was one of the best things Harper did. An HST is just a back door tax increase, something Harper clearly promised not to do in the last election.
Ignatieff will call this another “wedge” issue (why does that always make me think of plumbers), divisive, setting one part of the country against another,supporting big business against average Canadians,etc, etc.
And at the end of the day he will cave. At least this will take the attention away from the detainees. And it will bring the NDP one step closer to being the official opposition party.
Yes, pure and solid Harper genius.
Wonder if the Liberal finance critic, Chevy McCallum, (he didn’t drive a politically correct car and was afraid to admit it), will be among those who catch H1ST1?
How long will it take for the Liberals to realize they’re not fit to govern and do something about it instead of trolling the gutters for gotcha fodder?
Awesome vid! I have not being paying attention to Hudak, but wow!! I like his backbone and leadership. This is getting fun. At this point I don’t understand the ‘motion’ by the CPC as this pertains to provincial governments.However, if it puts Iggy on the hotplate I say bring it!
Um, Joanne, you may want to catch up on your talking points.
Just released:
Subject: Provincial tax-choice and the Liberals / Le choix fiscal des provinces et les libéraux
Dear Caucus Members:
A front-page story in the Globe and Mail gives an unfortunate and inaccurate impression of our tax-harmonization framework policy.
The Government will introduce a tax-harmonization framework in order to respect provincial decision-making and to honour commitments made to Premiers McGuinty and Campbell.
Contrary to what the story implies, we are not proceeding in this manner to embarrass, box in or gain an advantage over the federal Liberals. Indeed, the Finance Minister and the House Leader have already reached out to the Liberal Caucus in an effort to address the legislation in a fair and reasonable way. Similarly, the PMO and the BC and Ontario premiers’ offices have been cooperating on how to move forward in a reasonable and constructive manner.
We have too much respect for provincial rights to treat this issue as a political football. Our goal is to secure Official Opposition support for the provincial-choice framework, not to score cheap points.
To this end, Caucus members are urged to say nothing — to national or local media — about the Liberal position on the framework or about the implications for the Liberal Party. Equally unhelpful would be to repeat the lines in today’s Globe and Mail article. Please give the House Leader and Finance Minister the space they need to work with MPs across the aisle.
Over half the Canadian population is affected by this HST, Harper has pushed hard for it, said it is “crucial for Canadian properity”, campaigned on it, included it in his budgets, struck deals with the provinces on this (which they are relying on)… and he wants to play games?
The “framework” legislation was already passed years ago. He doesn’t need to go to Parliament again to get this approved.
Where’s the leadership from Harper? Why is he passing the buck on this?
The BC Libs campaign in favour of the CPC…well maybe a 65/35 split between the CPC and LPC, respectively.
I think the federal Libs and the BC Libs had a public divorce sometime in the 80’s, so they don’t have their hand on the leash like they do (did?) with Dalton.
Ted, I just got in. Would you happen to have a link? Thanks.
You think Harper is brilliant? He is a hypocrite,coward and liar He is liberal in blue. I say this as someone who held his nose and voted for him in 2006. Then he thought HRCs were dangerous, didn’t believe in the science of global warming.However he put feminazi Lynch and her goons in charge of CHRC and is now willing to poison Canadians by banning incandescent light bulbs and filling landfills with mercury filled toxic CFLs . As an Ontarian I blame him for giving millions of dollars to his liberal pal McGuinty to increase my taxes. My MP Pierre Lemieux knows my feelings. The sooner Harper is gone the sooner I can reclaim my vote. I don’t vote liberal even in blue.
No problem, Joanne.
Here’s the link to the internal talking points memo where they try to flip flop on yesterday’s talking points.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/27/equally-unhelpful-would-be-to-repeat-the-lines-in-todays-globe-and-mail/#more-94816
I’m guessing that Premiers Campbell and McGuinty had a few words with Harper trying to make a game out of their tax policies and jeopardizing years of work for a little political “ultimatum”.
Wells, showing his liberal roots, has a couple of pieces here and here with the Conservative talking points
As Paul Wells said about the talking points flip flop and backdown:
“That thing about boxing the Liberals in by making them decide federal tax policy? Never mind. Here, via the Inkless emailbox, are today’s Conservative talking points, which repeal yesterday’s Conservative talking points. So it’s flip-flop week for the government! I greatly fear Stephen Harper will cancel his Copenhagen trip, hike the GST, declare the Québécois an “un-nation” and introduce a carbon tax before sundown.”
Jad:
Do you read much Paul Wells? He’s been quite praiseworthy of him and very down on Ignatieff.
Whatever his personal political preferences, I really don’t think you can accuse Wells of blindly criticizing Harper, being as he does so rarely these days.
If Wells is calling it a week of flip flops for Harper, you probably want to listen to the message instead of shooting the messenger.
I’ve scanned those articles at Maclean’s and I don’t see anything about them changing their minds on putting forward the legislation or am I missing something?
The commentators at the G&M article are mighty naive and navigating 2 pages of them almost gave me whiplash caused by laughter.
Here’s the reality Ontario and BC voters from where I sit, both Premiers, under different political circumstances, entered into this initiative DURING A RECESSION and DIDN’T SELL IT in an honest and open manner.
The HST,as I have said many times, is an efficient tax but when you have 2 Provincial Govts, hell bent on tax and spend programs, the voter’s trust is clearly bound to wane and rightfully so. Particularly in the case of Ontario. McGuinty has lost all credibility, imo.
Campbell too but for different reasons.
I predict it fails in Parliament. The LPoT has to much to lose even though MP’s like MHF have come out in support.
What say the rest of you?
Joanne,
Yesterday, they were introduced this unnecessary legislation as putting an “ultimatum” on the Liberals.
Despite Harper saying that HST was “crucial for the prosperty of Canadians”, despite him pushing for it, campaigning on it, including a push for it in his budget, despite reaching hard negotiated deals with provinces representing over half the Canadian population, despite commiting to the provinces to see this through, despite the fact that “framework” legislation was already passed and this is unnecessary, yesterday the PMO said this was a one shot attempt: ““This legislation will have the support of the Official Opposition or it will not. If it does, we expect the bill to win approval before the Christmas recess. If the framework legislation is rejected before Christmas, we will not revisit the issue. Not next year. Not after the next election.”
But today, they are reaffirming their commitments to the provincial deals they pushed and signed, claiming they are not playing political football, that despite what they actually said this isn’t just trying to force the focus to be on the Liberals, etc.
The “framework” legislation was already approved years ago and Harper could, by Order in Council, implement his deal with the provinces.
For some reason, he has chosen to put it to a vote and put an ultimatum on the Liberals or never deal with the HST issue again.
Is that leadership?
They stated that
Ted, it is my understanding that Parliament eventually has to pass legislation in order for the HST to be viable in BC and Ontario. But you say it could be done by an Order in Council.
We would need a parliamentary expert to clear this up.
Liberals scream if PMSH governs like he has a majority,
and then howl if asks for HoC support on a critical bill,
like he did before extending the Afghan mission.
Either the LPC backs the Premiers or they crawl under the NDP skirt for cover from a hostile electorate.
Either the LPC are capable of making a tough decision or not, or they can simply do the Liberal thing, and abstain.
Here’s the reality Ontario and BC voters from where I sit, both Premiers, under different political circumstances, entered into this initiative DURING A RECESSION and DIDN’T SELL IT in an honest and open manner.
I agree, Bec. That’s my problem with it too.
At first I was neutral on the H$T, buy now I’m becoming increasingly angry about it. The other day I was getting my hair cut and the ladies there were livid about it – both customers and the folks that work there. I’ve never heard any political discussion going on there before but this thing is BIG. They are really really angry and frankly I am too as I start to realize all the items it will effect that I have no control over like heating, utilities etc. In some cases it will be taxes on taxes.
I am disgusted by the whole idea. I hope Iffy votes against it.
Funny how the Liberals screamed blue bloody murder when the Harper government wanted to use an Order in Council to remove barley from the CWB monopoly, Ted.
And an OiC was a perfectly legitimate channel of removal
It wouldn’t matter how PMSH handled this legislation,
he could slip it into the budget too,
he would be accused of being devious.
So the stand alone legislative vote in the HoC is the most transparent way for a MINORITY government to act.
Is it possible Joanne, that when comments are made using proper names, full quotation marks and further, quotes are offered as facts without quotation marks,that supporting links be provided without exception?
It is one thing to have an opinion and an entirely different thing to make sections of an opinion appear as fact in the context of actual quotes.
Quotes,imo should be backed up in their original context, period.
Joanne- unfortunately Liberal Ted has hijacked your comments thread. So far he/she has been somewhat civil but all of these quotes out of context and blah blah are just too hard on the head.
When this person is on other BT sites I just never read the comments or participate because I feel sad that a fellow Canadian can be so vile and hate filled and uninformed.
Both the BC and Ontario governments could postpone implimentation of the HST, no?
If this was happening in Alberta,
I would be angry if the feds interferred in a provincial decision by disallowing Albertans to make that choice themselves….just sayin’
Governance, Wilson, is not about the opposition or what they are going to say about you. It is about Canadians and leadership. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions that may not be popular.
Harper pushed for the HST, he pushed BC and Ontario to reach agreements, he made commitments to them, he has the power to implement his commitments and promises. Instead, he tries to pass the buck.
Federal Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, Part III.1 Sales Tax Harmonization Agreement:
“8.3 (1) The Minister, with the approval of the Governor in Council, may on behalf of the Government of Canada enter into an agreement or arrangement with the government of a province respecting sales taxes.
8.4 Where the Government of Canada has entered into a sales tax harmonization agreement with the government of a province, the federal Minister who, pursuant to the agreement, is responsible for the administration and enforcement of the system of taxation contemplated under the agreement may pay to a province out of amounts received in a fiscal year under Part IX of the Excise Tax Act (a) amounts determined in accordance with the agreement as provided, and at such times as are specified, in the agreement; and (b) subject to the regulations, advances in respect of the amounts referred to in paragraph (a).
8.6. Notwithstanding any other Act, the payments paid under a sales tax harmonization agreement under the authority of section 8.4 or 8.5 may be made without any other or further appropriation or authority.
It took me about 15 minutes to find that.
Bec, yes anything in quotes should have some source link provided. Sometimes I overlook such things but you make a good point. Thanks.
[...] « Brilliant HST strategy [...]
Brrr said: “An HST is just a back door tax increase, something Harper clearly promised not to do in the last election.”
I’m afraid that, even as a strong Harper gov’t supporter, I am VERY angry and disappointed about this tax. And, one of the reasons I am on blogging hiatus. I simply can’t do “rah rah” when I know perfectly well both the Ontario gov’t and the federal gov’t will make a windfall on that decision — and let’s call it what it is, a tax increase.
I mean, what would I add to my Harper Gov’t Record list — that “the approval to allow the provinces to add a value added tax” would be an accomplishment?
Sandy, I’m not happy about it either.
Agree with Lorraine’s comment @ 12:45 pm.
Ted and another called Gayle are visiting Conservative blogs for no purpose other than act as antagonists, to agitate and eventually the insults flow hijacking threads.
Iggy will be busy thinking thoughts on the HST and planning strategy with his new brain Donolo. He may even have to consult their resident expert, McCallum.
Trusting McGuinty, a tax and spend Liberal and proven fibber, “I will not raise taxes”, with any opportunity to raise taxes is not a good plan. It must be taken away.
”Sometimes you have to make tough decisions that may not be popular.”
So true Ted.
And we will see if Iffy is up to the challenge.
Why do Libs want to govern if they want to duck out of making a critical decision?
And a decision to deny the governments of Ontario and BC the right to impliment their own taxation legislation is not one that has ever been taken by a federal government.
Correct me if I am wrong here Ted,
and comment on which province was denied the right to harmonize their taxes with the GST.
Curious that the BLOC supports federal government intervention,
if this was about Quebec, they would be screaming ‘butt out’.
A little history on the HST.
In Saskatchewan, Devine brought in the HST and Romano won a landslide victory on the promise (kept) to reverse the decision.
The harmonization issue has always been a provincial matter,
why is that different today?
Pissedoff says: November 27, 2009 at 11:27 am “You think Harper is brilliant? He is a hypocrite,coward and liar He is liberal in blue. I say this as someone who held his nose and voted for him in 2006. Then he thought HRCs were dangerous, didn’t believe in the science of global warming.”
You mean you believe in Global Warming, while at this very moment it is being exposed as a fraud? I suppose you believe in the Tooth Fairy and Dr. Fruitfly also. You are out of touch with reality – stop exhaling and don’t contribute carbon into the air – if you believe in Global Warming.
The HRC is very dangerous to our free speech – and if they had their way you’d be charged for sure because somebody may be offended by your login name.
The real danger is if the Cons agrees with the other world leaders and accepts the Cap & Trade deal – that would cost him his political career and they would be reduced again to 2 seats.
I know how you feel being betrayed. I voted LIEberal once when they PROMISED to get rid of the Grits Support Tories tax (GST). They never did a thing – a true lie, and I fell for it. At least the Cons are fighting pollution, more than DeYawn ever did. If you want to blame anybody of in-action blame the LIEberals. When DeYawn was Environmental Minister he did nothing, and increased the carbon footprint by 30%.
Nicely said, Clown Party. Bravo.
Wilson said: “Correct me if I am wrong here Ted, and comment on which province was denied the right to harmonize their taxes with the GST.”
Tell me which HST required federal “framework” legislation that Harper is bringing to the House? The framework legislation, quoted above, gives Harper all the power he needs to make sure, as you say it, no province “is denied the right to harmonize their taxes with the GST”. In fact, that is the very reason why that framework legislation was already passed.
So why is Harper passing the buck again? If he supports the increase in taxes brought on by HST, which he unequivocally does, why doesn’t he stand up for his own principles? Why hide behind this “ultimatum”? When over half the Canadian population is going to be affected by this, why play political games? When he’s made a commitment to Ontario and BC to do what he can to get this passed, why go back on his commitment?
Wilson also said: “The harmonization issue has always been a provincial matter, why is that different today?”
Ask Harper. He’s the one that is making it a federal matter. First, for years he’s pushed hard for the HST. Second, He’s the one that is introducing legislation on this when he doesn’t have to.
The Federal Provincial Fiscal Arrangement Act was designed so the feds could implement what the provinces wanted. So, once Harper had induced BC and Ontario to harmonize, there was no need to wimp out and try to pass the buck.
With this move by Harper, the Opps who sit around criticizing, thinking they don’t have to put their money where their mouth is, may want to think things through a tad.
The HST is another tax, we know that, we don’t want it and we need to let our MP’s know we don’t want it.
We have to assume it will be a free vote.
Aren’t both these provinces expecting a little “sugar” to make the HST medicine go down better? Like a few billion ROC tax dollars, each.
Oh, yeah I forgot only Alberta has no PST, so we get to subsidize governments raising taxes on items that weren’t taxed before in other provinces and we don’t get to vote there, to make it easier for business to deal with taxes from two levels of government. Tell me again why provinces need a PST? Is it because they are spending more in their respective provinces than traditional taxation brings in, like business & income taxes from employees that provincial taxes drive out of province because the cost of government is too high in their jurisdictions?
Of course the BLOC are onside. Anytime some federal largesse is strewn about they want their “commission”, too. People should view this exercise as two levels of government not willing to reduce their “take”, so to make it fair I suppose expand the tax to everything and we can save a few bucks on reporting to two levels of government. Cost-benefit, probably neutral for business, but higher taxes for consumers. Pass the costs onto the consumer/taxpayer with an expanded tax regime. Yeah, sure. How’s your infrastructure these days, up to snuff? How much do public sector wages and benfits go up each and every year? Your public servants been on strike lately? With this windfall tax, just watch them.
Scam. Canada is a ripoff from the consumer POV, from all levels of government. They do not fear us enough.
Of course the BLOC are onside.
Jt, I’m actually surprised that the Bloc wants to inflict this on Quebec knowing the anger at the grassroots level in Ontario and BC.
Joanne- Quebec has had a harmonized HST/PST sales tax for several years. They did this under the Chretien Liberals as did a few other provinces. They all had the option starting in about 1995 I think.
What the BLOC wants now is for the Conservatives to give Quebec the same billions in compensation the Conservatives have offered BC & Ontario years after the fact and because the Liberals did not sweeten the pot for Quebec years ago.
This in spite of the fact that Quebec has had a competitive edge to entice businesses to invest there instead of BC & Ontario because of the blended tax.
Lorraine, thanks for the info. So now I am really mad – If Duceppe is being bribed to buy into this.
If I’m not mistaken Quebec already has a harmonized tax so it’s no big wow that the Bloc is in support.
The issue of the HST has been out there for at least the last year…if not more. What bugs me is that up until just a few months ago we didn’t hear a peep from either the opposition or the media on all of this. Yet as the year winds down people who usually don’t wake up until it’s almost too late….which folks, I believe it is. There should have been a constant outcry against both the provincial Liberals and the federal Conservatives on this issue. There hasn’t been.
Even now it’s more of a dull roar rather than an all out fight against the HST. It’s as if people have become so apathetic with respect to letting their voices be heard against the McGuinty gov’t, it’s as if he’s put Ontario into a deep, deep Liberal spell.
“There should have been a constant outcry against both the provincial Liberals and the federal Conservatives on this issue.”
Why the federal Conservatives?
At the risk of confusing things further, yes Quebec has HST, but they didn’t get any federal payoff to do it, so presumably this is part of why they will support the motion.
The Maritimes have had this for a number of years, apparently painlessly. I think in general terms it is good for the country and the individual provinces. Certainly as far as small business is concerned. It would be nice if the provinces exempted certain things, as the Maritimes did, but the reality is that all of the provinces are looking at huge deficits and this is a way to make it up.
And by the way, although Campbell didn’t manage to bring this up in the election in May, the NDP opposition has not been exactly robust.
The Bloc unfortunately is going to support this measure simply because they think that this will hurt the Conservatives, and thus benefit the Bloc in Quebec. The Tories need to deal with this.
I think this is probably short-term pain for long-term gain, but at the end of the day, it must be a provincial decision, and the federal government is simply an enabler.
Lorraine @ 4:39pm
I have seen that commented on at various places but it has not been supported with a link. Did you see a link verifying that +the details?
Actually, I am not sure if technically Quebec has a “harmonized sales tax”. Certainly not in the same way as the other provinces do.
Quebec has a “Quebec sales tax” which is more of a reverse of the HST where the GST is harmonized with and administered by the Quebec government instead of the other way around.
Bec:
Because it is the federal Conservatives who have been pushing for the HST for years now and it is the federal Conservatives who decided to bribe er, pay these two provinces with about $6 billion of taxpayer money in order to intice them to increase taxes.
Kind of odd for a government claiming it will never raise taxes, don’t ya think?
Ted, just wondering something here. How do you think Ignatieff should vote?
Ted, can you please provide me with a link and actually I asked someone else the question but thanks anyway.
This is rather good to read for BC residents and specific to my question @ 5:51pm although it clearly indicates an entirely different reality that what has been stated by Ted @5:36pm. He forgot to mention the Liberal part……
“Since the late 1990s, both federal Liberal and Conservative governments have been pushing provinces to join the HST system adopted by Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland in 1997. Quebec had already set up a comparable value-added tax system a few years earlier.”
http://columbiavalleynews.com/news/2009/08/26/why-the-hst-and-why-now/
I haven’t found anything yet for you Ontario residents yet but this article does speak to the Ontario decision and actually clears up a few of my questions too.
Jt, I’m actually surprised that the Bloc wants to inflict this on Quebec knowing the anger at the grassroots level in Ontario and BC.
That is because they are “government” and they don’t care how or who get’s it when they want more money for themselves. Especially federal money from the ROC. Even the Income Trust debacle is based on that premise: government gets the money first, before you get to spend your own money. It was the provinces crying to the feds on how much they were losing – to other provinces. Boo.Hoo.
Salaries, pensions, great swathes of government employees to pay here. They earn 30% more than private sector wage earners and have legacy costs built into their contracts for pensions. Politics doesn’t even come into this. They are acting on their own as separate entities. We just get the bill.
Let’s face it, the uncompetitive nature of provincial governments, by taxing to pay for their bloated government apparatus, drive the taxpayers out. To maintain the “infrastructure of government” a known quantity of cash has to be directed to government to pay them. PST, equalization, any kind of federal funding for inneficient provincial government is the salve for all. The taxpayer just pays, and pays and pays. Doesn’t matte which jurisdiction, either.
Forgot to add: this is just a fight over who gets the blame for all those new taxes on stuff that wasn’t taxed before, so one can blame the other. Like dogs over a bone.
For once I’ll agree with Ted. However, if the federal Liberals were involved they’d save McGuinty’s butt by jacking up the GST and shovel more “equalization” to Ontario. Case closed. All the government apparatus gets a raise and everyone is happy. McGuinty looks good, the feds do too.
As for Quebec, if they aren’t running their own tax scams themselves like the Little Banana Republic that they are, they just pout and whine for federal money (read ROC) so that they don’t look like bad guys raising their taxes even more. Remember, they got $700 million not too long ago to pay them off and the government cut taxes for the taxpayer to keep them from being tarred and featherd by the populace. Other than that Charest was dead meat, next election.
It never ends.
Bec – sorry I’m late in answering your questions about why Ontario should be mad at the feds. I guess it’s because the feds. made the deal all that much sweeter and therefore somewhat encouraging.
If a decision on the HST would be difficult for Iffy, it’s also difficult for Hudak and the Ont. I don’t think the train can be stopped at this point.
Last night’s Agenda touched on this a bit and Steve Pakin commented that it appears that Ontario is going to give Dalton a pass on the HST because he sees no groundswell of opposition of the kind we saw with Rae’s Rae Days.
Actually the Agenda last night is worth catching again this morning because it was all about the second coming of the Common Sense Revolution and how Ontario’s being done in by the public sector expense.
Like most Ontario residents very upset withe the HST passing in Federal Government. I believe Harper to be a Liberal trapped in a PC party.. I am sick and tired of listening to stupid Liberal…talking to me about piddly rebates that I qualify as a small business…while paying a fortune like the rest of us for more taxes in services. My business is a service and will be negatively affected by GST…with Canadian companies using American Services and be HST exempt..This is a sheer tax grab. Manufacturers will benefit and so will major retailers and monopolicies…Banks, Retail. guess what…even not for Profits making millions in Lotteries will get rebates…Job Creation..I say screw you you idiot Politicians…you simply want to taxe everyone to death to support more useless government workers…Guess What? HST on funeral services….This country is run by useless idiot politicians…