Lorrie Goldstein on Climategate – “Big bucks riding on data”. (Sun)
As usual, Lorrie nails the overriding significance of this story that is either largely ignored or trivialized by many in MSM:
…Supporters insist all this simply shows science is a messy business, doesn’t prove any conspiracy to hide the truth and that too much other research has been done to discredit mainstream climate theory.
But that misses the point. Much of this research — on which tens of billions of public dollars have been spent worldwide over decades — is the foundation upon which governments are about to put a price on emitting carbon dioxide. The result will be a massive increase in the cost of living for virtually everyone in the developed world.
Copenhagen will be a negotiation about transferring billions of dollars of wealth from the developed world to the developing one, with no guarantees it will help the planet.
That’s what this controversy is really all about.
Well done Lorrie!
Perhaps the more lemming-like of your Canadian colleagues will finally wake up and realize that they’ve been duped – unless they’re in on the deception.
* * * *
Update:
Excellent post here by Stephen Taylor – Hockey sticks and email leaks: Dr. Ross McKitrick responds to the “Climategate” story. Stephen quotes McKitrick:
...So in addition to any hearings, what is now needed is: governments rescind any acceptance of the IPCC 3rd and 4th Assessment reports and implement a large-scale independent audit of these reports. We need to know exactly which graphs were doctored, what evidence was deleted, and whether the authors concealed doubts and uncertainties when assembling the text…
Check it out.
Time to hear from our elected representatives on this matter. If anyone has emailed their MP and received a reply, please let us know. Thanks.
And what do the MSM truth-deniers have to say now?
* * * *
(H/T Springer at Sort of Political)
Also please check out Cooking the climate books by Lorne Gunter and The skeptics are vindicated by David Warren.
* * * *
Evening Update:
Excellent Adler interview with Lorrie Goldstein at CJOB – Go to the audio vault and click on 1 pm (Nov. 25).
* * * *
Thursday Update:
Carbon Hunters: Penny for your pollution - Vue Weekly:
…I think people have to realize it doesn’t matter where you stand on the climate change issue. When it comes to carbon trading, it’s here, and it isn’t going to go away until the day we decide that climate change isn’t an issue—and that would be through our leaders and our scientists. [They] are gonna have to decide that,” he says “So this is part of the 21st century. Some people say it’ll be the biggest commodity ever, bigger than oil.”
B.C. better start finding carbon credits at home – Vancouver Sun:
Richard Sandor, who runs the Chicago Climate Exchange and is seen as the “father of carbon trading,” predicts the global carbon credit market will soon be in the trillions of dollars annually.
Bigger than gold or oil.
If he’s right, let’s hope the Canadian and provincial governments have their crack negotiators on this file in Washington and the United Nations, where cap-and-trade will be defined. If not, what many predict will be the Carbon Century could be very, very expensive for Canadians and their economy.
A somewhat radical solution for what seems to be a insignificant if not totally manufactured problem.
It’s all about the money, folks.
Kelly McParland: Michael Ignatieff unveils his big climate plan – Post.
Goreacle Report: The Unabomber and the Canadian UNbomber.
…-
The Unabomber*:
“To relieve the pressure on nature it is not necessary to create a special kind of social system, it is only necessary to get rid of industrial society.”
The Canadian UNbomber:
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the
industrialized civilizations collapse?
Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
- Maurice Strong,
founder of the UN Environment Programme”
http://green-agenda.com/
*Unabomber:
http://www.42inc.com/~estephen/manifesto/unabe2.html
Good for Lorrie Goldstein!
His comment section carries more info than another so-called news article in the The TOSun referencing the Hadley material. They quote that well known scientist, David Miller. It was written by Don Peat. It is, needless to say, a pathetic attempt to cover the real news and deflect.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/11/25/11915476-sun.html
I like the fact that the likes of the Star are willing to crucify Canadian soldiers soley on the word of Taliban terrorists about torture, something they are trained to lie about as shown in captured manuals. But they deliberately refuse to pursue this story even though there are thousands of documents which have been verified as real. If the Star has written about this scandal please correct me.
The Liberal/Left loonies are obliquely accusing our Forces and our government of being complicit to war crimes. This calls for serious attention, the world is watching, the enemy is watching. Mr Harper may need to take serious action, he may need to call for the people of Canada to decide who’s side we should be on.
This whole “issue”, for want of a better word, is pure gotcha politics. The pathetic Opposition needed to move on to another gotcha when H1N1 fizzled. They’re quite willing to tarnish their country to score points, even siding with the word of the enemy.
If such people had been around with any kind of power during our World Wars, they’d not be playing such games with their Country’s reputation for hoped for political gain.
We may yet have to take to the streets on this one, it’s just so bad. No country accuses it’s own forces of war crimes while they’re fighting and dying in the field.
I’d like to see the government call an election over the detainee issue. These are very serious accusations that the opposition parties are making.
While they’re at it they might also throw climate change into the fray.
Yeah, I’m ready for an election. Let’s get the truth out there – the whole truth.
The Liberals might want to think, if they have the capacity think, or stay on one issue they create long enough to smack themselves. They’re demanding documents and an Inguiry which will bring out documents from the Liberal tenure on this issue as well.
The cartoon of Iggy’s shoes full of holes is right on the mark. Iggy’s shoes are well aerated. Not good for a walk in the snow…
Some humour – I saw someone suggesting it should be called climatequiddick instead of climategate in honour of the medias cooperation in covering up Teddy’s scandal.
Don’t forget that all media is likely depending on the hysterics of Global Warming to continue because is pays. If it weren’t for telegraphing hysterics and scandals for the suckers who tune in, or read them they’d have nothing to report.
Same old….same old.
The media, are very tuned into their market and are playing them like a fiddle on this one? Why?
It’s wonderful to see Lorrie speak up but it’s Wednesday. How can this be possible that a mere trickle of journalists are entering into the fray and so gingerly at that.
I casually mentioned the story to my GEOLOGIST S-i-L yesterday and he had heard NOTHING about it and so I immediately e-mailed him link after link.
In a way I can understand that as the oil and gas industry has been hammered on this file and the Province in partnership, have invested billions of dollars, hundreds of lost jobs in environmental initiatives. Perhaps to just find out they were pawns in a bigger agenda? Wow!
Yes, perhaps playing it down eliminates another ‘see-saw’ research/business environment in the workplace.It would be intriguing to understand the thinking and reasoning for the play down of this story.
I suspect that from what I have read and seen, the challenging Scientists will not let this go until it is fully investigated.
In the meantime, I hope the zealots loose a ton of money on their agenda driven investments and let’s start with the ‘UNbomber’, hmm?…and then…and then…..
I’ve seen posts saying they know there is man-made climate change. It’s just that all the details (ie evidence) are not known yet. Which is like saying there is an afterlife. The reality of which you have to believe through faith. My point being man-made climate change is a religion. Don’t go around claiming it is based on science.
Dr. Suzuki was just on CBC talking about climate change. He’ll be getting an award in Copenhagen. He said the evidence is “STRONGER” now then in 1988 and went on singing the praises of Al Gore.
He then said Obama is going to Copenhagen & the Canadian PM Harper is not going because Canada is trying to spoil it????
Actually Liz the US is persecuting their military members out of fear of a public backlash, read this story and tell me your blood pressure doesn’t go boom.
Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html
The political left are using torture as a smoke screen to take pot shots at our military, the hearing is a leftwing witchhunt and our military members are the human sacrifice. They’ve decided to take the word of a man who talked to one lone suspected member of the Taliban thus heresay is the truth and our brass are liars? The line in the sand is drawn, the political left in Canada will smear besmirtch and do what ever it takes to prove heresay is the truth. According to CBC 50 percent of Canadians polled believe our troops aided in the torture of the Taliban.
Climate Change has nothing to do with science.
It’s a class war that the Progressives Caste has declared against the people.
“Science” is just another weapon in their arsenal.
They are attempting to build a Berlin Wall around our lives.
More freedom for them and slavery for us.
Don’t forget who these political grand standers are.
They represent the parties that are faceless on November 11th at Cenotaphs across this nation.They have members that can be seen at Tamil Tiger demonstrations and Hamas and Hezbollah sympathizers.
They lobby tirelessly to repatriate an alleged terrorist, comfortable with displaying hacked body parts and killing an innocent allied serviceman.
So just consider the sources….it helps us relax.
With the opposition’s denigration of the Canadian government for purely selfish reasons and based on one man’s witness, they are putting our Prime Minister at a definite disadvantage for his visit to China. They are not thinking of the greater good for humanity.
Meanwhile, back on topic-
Wednesday, November 25, 2009
Global Warming? Climate Change? Which is it?
Madely in the Morning – 7:10am — Steve Madely is joined by Tim Patterson, Earth Sciences Professor at Carleton University to discuss the Global Warming controversy
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/tim%20patterson-nov25.mp3
What if the liberals are so sure that if an election is called, the party responsible will get hammered at the polls so PMSH will not call one, and if he does, he will lose. I think that is wrong, as the issue for calling an election is important.
What if the liberals know they will lose, but want to get rid of their leader NOW, not later, and another minority will give them a reason to dump iffy.
Liberals think that with a trip to China, Christmas and the Olympics, PMSH will not gamble on an election.
I think they are wrong and the majority of Canadians will not allow our troops to be tarnished with liberal lies. Every member of our military has numerous family members and friends who will support the government.
The media and liberals tried to diss the PM for not being in the HofC, ignoring the fact he was out of the country. Why has iffy been absent so often.
If this sideshow goes on much longer, call the election. But, first get those senators appointed.
Fear of losing their majority in the senate probably has more to do with liberal antics than anything else.
Hannity on FOX 2007 topic on AL GORE look at the video:
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/videos/1757-hannitys-america-al-gores-gulfstream-jet
bettie says:
November 25, 2009 at 10:21 am
CBC, CTV, the opposition parties will gladly welcome the taliban detainees to stay with them, no doubt the taliban will find ample room at CBC and CTV. and most probably find a job within CBC- Any friend of the opposition parties is a friend of CBC any criminal the liberals support is also a friend of CBC.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS
Ontario Girl ”He (Suzuki) then said Obama is going to Copenhagen & the Canadian PM Harper is not going because Canada is trying to spoil it????”
PMSH should stay away from Copenhagen,
not associate himself with the GW fraud.
Republicans (Sarah Palin) has just been handed a winner.
The best way for this issue to be exposed is by drip drip drip. Not explode it onto the media and ‘get it over with’ and forgotten.
It will take time for people to digest and believe there is GW fraud.
So the media is unintentionally helping our side.
General Hillier speaks at committee 3:30 ET.
Laughable poll out today, that 51% believe Colvin !
Only 1/2 of Canadians believe him, watch those numbers plunge once the 3 Generals have had their say today.
According to the latest poll, salvivated over by impartial CBC “journalists” of course, 50% of the people polled believe Richard Colvin. Now keep in mind that is BEFORE we’ve even had a chance to hear any other testimony.
Kind of tells you the kind of uphill, biased PR campaign the Tories are constantly fighting against, doesn’t it?
Most of the msm may be ignoring climate-gate, but the politicians won’t–more specifically, all the Congressmen and one-third of the Senators, who come up for re-election in Nov. 2010.
Have a listen to
Dave Rutherford from Tuesday @ 10:06 AM, who talks to Mark Morano, a very eloquent, passionate and hard-hitting climate expert. Here’s an excerpt:
“… So even Obama recognized it. In the U.S. Congress, even Senator Al Franken bailed out on the Climate Bill. Democrats, bailing out left and right, signing letters saying they won’t support it. Former John MacCain aides are baffled and shocked that HE has reversed himself, will not support the Climate Bill …
On our side of the border, Harper’s environmental hand has obviously strenghtened. Let’s see how he plays it. The Opps over-reached, when they ganged up and passed Pablo Rodriguez’s “Kyoto Implementation Bill”.
Did this Colvin person ever get a response from his so called e-mails and letters, to prove that he sent them.
Colvin has been told he can’t reveal so called documents or he would be violating National Security laws.
I feel a CBC “Inconvenient Truth” marathon coming on….just watch. Like last winter while we were suffering through a horrible winter, they played that stupid movie just to mess with us. Same circumstances here – they know about these emails (who could not) but refuse to acknowledge them, but will mess with us and play that dumb movie.
The other night channel surfing on CBC, what did they have on at 7:00 p.m.? A show on Newsworld called “Orgasm Inc.”.
Completely useless and I don’t want my tax dollars supporting these freaks any longer. Enough with the social engineering and climate change pandering!
Do you hear me, politicians??
Despite the slow and tepid response of the media, this is a scandal that will not disappear by ignoring it. An organization called CEI has served notice to sue US agencies like NASA (see planetgore or WUWT). Like the UK researchers, US climate teams have (allegedly) been refusing FOI requests. I suspect that many CO2 releasing businesses in the US will follow suit – challenging EPA regs, for instance. US Republicans are requesting a political investigation. This is just the first chapter that introduces the plot and characters. The meatier parts will follow once the audits and legal challenges start.
The Canadian government, who have decided to harmonize our legislation to the US, should just wait-and-see what happens. Better yet, they should take S.Taylor’s advice and demand an audit and full disclosure of all records. The science is not settled and the consensus is built on sloppy and/or manipulated processes.
Way o/t
Did you know that Saskatoon set cut off date for abortion at 12 weeks?
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Abortion+date+Saskatoon+criticized+early/2218014/story.html
I admit to not paying much attention to the debate, because I support all women, and their right to be pro-life or pro-choice.
There is no federal law on abortion.
It seems to be in the exclusive control of Provincial health aurthorites.
IMO, it should stay there.
It seems to be in the exclusive control of Provincial health aurthorites.
IMO, it should stay there.
I tend to agree. Interesting development though.
o/t again, sorry,
Macleans has an interesting (long) article up, a poll taken about mulitiple issues, euthenasia, death penalty, abortion etc…very interesting if yah need a break from faux torture scandals and science fraud. We Canadians are an interesting people!
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/20/what-canadians-really-believe-2/
Laughable poll out today, that 51% believe Colvin !
The thing I can’t believe , is the foolishness of taking a poll after only hearing from one person. What a pathetic joke that is.
Ontario Girl, would be 51% of those who listen to the CBC and read the Leftist rags?
I agree that it’s better if this climate-gate drips out. Kind of like Chinese water torture on the foreheads of the enviro-advocates, and their political bedmates.
Eventually, the enviro-lobbyists will be floating alone on an iceberg with their beloved polar bears. NO U.S. politician will want to be seen with them, or regurgitating their talking points. FOX, Sarah Palin, Limbaugh et al are going to milk this climate-gate for all it’s worth–politically and for media share/advertising dollars.
Harper just has to stand back, let the battle rage down south, let Prentice rag the puck, while fools like McGuinty, Charest, Lizzie May, et al dig their holes deeper and deeper.
If I were the Opps, I would be very afraid of the sword that has just been handed Harper. He the master strategist and expert at wedge politics. He drove a wedge between the gun control lobby and the Libs/Dippers. Driving a wedge between the enviros and Libs/Dippers should be a piece of cake.
Any one of us junkies could come up with a good sequence of tactical moves.
Hopefully, the enviro-nuts all end up gathered under Lizzie’s protective skirt. More vote spliting of the left.
AGW is now in O’denial phase.
Next* the O’phase:
“*This is his [AGW's] sole legacy: a massive post-traumatic stress disorder.”
…-
“RealClimate AGW site can’t stand the heat…Comments section turned off!!
146.Comments are now turned off. Unfortunately, the comments are now running about 10:1 insults and innuendo. Serious discussion seems to have largely died off. The last couple of posters did raise some reasonable questions, and I will respond to them after Thanksgiving. Meanwhile happy Thanksgiving to all the American readers (and to everyone else, for that matter).–Eric
I have been monitoring the blog RealClimate.org which is prominently mentioned in the East Anglia U email scandal. RealClimate was set up as a ‘rapid response’ site by the same ‘scientists’ who are cooked the data and are trying to force feed CO2 reductions onto the world.
After the scandal broke, they were out right away decrying the criminal ‘hacking’ of the emails. Then they moved on to defending the ‘poorly worded’ emails by the scientists who gave us AGW theory. Yesterday they moved on to touting the ‘Copenhagen Diagnosis’ which is the alarmist view of icecaps melting, the seas rising, and the world baking.
Today they turned the comments off because they are out of BS and the ‘questions’ about the Copenhagen Diagnosis are getting very specific and they have no answers.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2394362/posts
…-
The O’phase:
“The “small people”, the “rank and file”, the “loyal soldiers” of the narcissist – his flock, his nation, his employees – they pay the price. The disillusionment and disenchantment are agonizing. The process of reconstruction, of rising from the ashes, of overcoming the trauma of having been deceived, exploited and manipulated – is drawn-out. It is difficult to trust again, to have faith, to love, to be led, to collaborate. Feelings of shame and guilt engulf the erstwhile followers of the narcissist. This is his sole legacy: a massive post-traumatic stress disorder.”
http://www.globalpolitician.com/25109-barack-obama-elections
Lonesome George. Not the other George.
George agrees/concurs: >>> Denial is a BIG river.
The meltdown of AGW. It’s over.
AGW fraud was a finite ideology. AGW had a beginning; AGW is now at its end.
Is George in full CYA mode? Is George hoping to keep his perky job? What gives with George? Is George rational?
…-
George Monbiot:
“Pretending the climate email leak isn’t a crisis won’t make it go away
Climate sceptics have lied, obscured and cheatedfor years. That’s why we climate rationalists must uphold the highest standards of science.”
have seldom felt so alone. Confronted with crisis, most of the environmentalists I know have gone into denial. The emails hacked from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia, they say, are a storm in a tea cup, no big deal, exaggerated out of all recognition. It is true that climate change deniers have made wild claims which the material can’t possibly support (the end of global warming, the death of climate science). But it is also true that the emails are very damaging.
The response of the greens and most of the scientists I know is profoundly ironic, as we spend so much of our time confronting other people’s denial. Pretending that this isn’t a real crisis isn’t going to make it go away. Nor is an attempt to justify the emails with technicalities. We’ll be able to get past this only by grasping reality, apologising where appropriate and demonstrating that it cannot happen again.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response
Jo, I’ve sent you an email.
With respect to CBC, may I suggest everyone complain to
ombudsman@cbc.ca about lack of coverage, lack of objectivety on the CRU fiasco. You may also use the web-site CBC.ca to contact them with a complaint. At least this will get their attention, the ombudsman is required to respond to each complaint.
I listened to a little bit of Bill Good on CKNW in Vancouver this morning, as I expected he is still an ardent supporter of Glo-Bull Warming, the biggest fraud ever perpetrated in human history.
Bill was surprised that the majority of E-mails and voice messages to his show were diametrically opposed to his flawed point of view…….go figure.
Copenhagen snuffed.
Bury the AGW dinosaurs.
…-
“Ottawa holds back climate rules pending global deal
Ottawa will delay the release of climate regulations until there is a firm agreement on a global approach and clarity on how the United States intends to regulate emissions – which could take until late 2010, Environment Minister Jim Prentice says.
In a conference call from Copenhagen, Mr. Prentice said it is important Canada harmonize its “continental” approach with whatever final agreement emerges from the global effort to reach a climate change treaty.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-holds-back-climate-rules-pending-global-deal/article1366491/
Steve Janke has a post that is brilliant.
Not only does it backhand the entire AGW industry, but also
clobbers the left wing.
http://stevejanke.com/
Anyone watching QP in our HOC today has to wonder if insanity has taken over the entire opposition.
They’re jumping from pillar to post on tired old issues,new concoctions and ignoring the latest information on the global warming front. They were accusing the Conservatives and our Forces of war crimes, this is basically what they’re doing, they’re accusing the conservatives of not acting on the issue of a baby crib which has been found unsafe, then something about a Conservative MP making a comment about abortion, declaring that person to be of the old Reform Party and on it went.
To tell the truth, I have no idea how the PM can tolerate the abuse and disrespect.
None more pathetic than Iggy, Dosanjh and Rae.
IMO, they’ve lost it.
Just back from an errand and catching up here. There was a great interview with Lorrie Goldstein on Adler earlier. I’ll try to post it soon.
Here’s a good bit;
The World is waking up folks.
In an article titled, “Climatologists Baffled By Global Warming Time-Out,” author Gerald Traufetter leads off with the observation: “Climatologists are baffled as to why average global temperatures have stopped rising over the last 10 years.” They better figure it out, Der Spiegel warns, because “billions of euros are at stake in the negotiations.”
Power, Control, and of course, all that money. That has ALWAYS been what all this is about.
We are told in sad tones that “not much is happening with global warming at the moment” and that “it even looks as though global warming could come to a standstill this year.” But how can it be that the earth isn’t following all those computer models? Is the earth goddess Gaia herself a climate change “denier”?
One jackass Liberal who must be hold up in a Liberal bunker or not be into paying attention to the latest world news is Enviro critic David McGuinty. Man, oh, man is he thick. Who votes for these people? How do they get law degrees?
Hillier on CTV right now testifying. It’s well worth watching.
Kady is liveblogging.
Kady paraphrases Hillier:
Gore’s Unabomber Fraud:
Pyramid Circular Scheme/scam.
Gore cloned socialism.
VDH reporting: “and then did a rendition on David Suzuki from Canada,”.
All in favour; raise your right hand.
…-
“The New War against Reason
Medieval heretic-hunters had nothing on Obama when it comes to closed-mindedness.
By Victor Davis Hanson”
“You have to love President Obama – less than a year in office and Anthropogenic Global Warming has been fixed. Well, except for a little bit of cleanup. It doesn’t look like he will be able to close the Guantanamo Bay Prison as he pledged. But I think that there is an opportunity for a win-win here.
If he arrested Al Gore, Michael Mann, James Hansen and then did a rendition on David Suzuki from Canada, Phil Jones and others from the CRU in England, I think that Gitmo would be an ideal location to hold them while determining their future.”
[...]
“Gore, the green populist, has mastered a scam worthy of Bernie Madoff — based on a brilliant three-step business strategy:
1) Write, speak, and produce movies as a disinterested public intellectual to bring “research” to the public’s attention. Demonize skeptics through suggestions that they are either stupid, cold-hearted, or greedy.
2) Meanwhile, create all sorts of green companies designed to offer wind and solar technologies — and even stranger services like “carbon offsets.” The latter is a medieval concept in which rich carbon sinners can continue to satisfy their lust for cars, big homes, and airplanes. The trick is to hire out green priests who take carbon confession, and then offer the sinner a way back into earth-first heaven — through the commensurate penance of planting trees or building windmills somewhere else as divine compensation.
3) When the rationally minded complain of this scam, Gore’s lieutenants proclaim that he is not a hypocrite, much less a scheming businessman, because he invests in “what he believes in.”
Ponder that twisted logic: You circle the globe proselytizing that Earth will soon resemble the planet Mercury. But that’s okay, because you make your millions by offering products to alleviate the subsequent induced fears. The rationalization is akin to the financial manipulator who claims that he has done nothing wrong, because he reinvests his insider profits back into the Wall Street he helped to panic.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2394470/posts (complete)
Gauthier is decimating Colvin’s testimony!
Climategate: This story won’t die
By E. Thomas McClanahan, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist
CBS News Correspondent Declan McCullough provides an excellent summary of where things stand and the significance of the revelations. George Monbiot, a U.K. climate-change activist, admits that it’s “no use pretending that this isn’t a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging.”
Congress may investigate. East Anglia acknowledges that it’s systems were hacked, but hasn’t yet confirmed the e-mails’ authenticity. The scandal already has its own Wikipedia page. For journalists, the question of whether to delve into this would seem obvious. You already have a very big breaking story. Maybe it will ultimately support the claims of those skeptical of anthropogenic global warming, maybe it won’t.
But right now, we have enough info to conclude there’s probable cause to believe people at the Climate Research Unit fiddled with the data and discussed destroying e-mails to thwart a freedom-of-information requests. One e-mail talked about how to “hide the decline,” the phrase that’s become a rallying cry for AGW skeptics.
The opposition MPs must be feeling pretty small right now. Gauthier really let them have it.
Running an errand so missed Gauthier,s testimony.
Any place one can hear it, or read it.
That is my MP chairing the hearing.
Mary T, check out Kady O’Malley’s liveblogging link – scroll back to around the 4 pm mark.
So, a lot of organizations are saying torture existed. One should examine how many times these organizations have been wrong. I have no faith in the Red Cross ever since the tainted blood scandal.
Did anyone who has lived for about 5 decades ever think this country would come to this spectacle we’re watching in the politics of this country? The depths the Liberals and the rest of the Leftist opposition have gone to is beyond anything one could imagine.
This whole exercise in gotcha politics will backfire immensely, they’ll rue the day they accused our country and it’s military of war crimes. Mr Harper should go to the HOC and read the riot act on this issue.
Watched the testamony of the 3 generals. Gauthier said he HOPES that the documents get released because there is “NOTHING” there.The coalition party are left with major egg on their pathetic little faces and now all the pathetic souls (CBC & CTV includes)have left is to talk “DOCUMENTS”…”COVER-UPS” What I get from all of this is TOTAL disgust of the opposition parties on this issue. Listening to the generals speaking of the hardships of “WAR” in the real world…and looking at those a$$s of the opposition sitting their a$$’s in those big comfy chairs throwing smears out about our Conservative Govt. and our honourable soldiers and trying to insinuate TORTURE by our military and govt. is beyond reality.I wish the opposition committee would get sent to Afganistan along with the biased media. What a disgraceful farce….from the H1N1 to this. Desperate…..We need an election and FOX NEWS.
Ontario Girl, you’re right. It’s just a blatant attempt to smear the Government. It’s pathetic.
CBC has had 6 of Colvin’s documents on their site since this morning.
Now Hawn is on CBC and read a email sent around by the Liberals, after this testamony ,asking for a donation to the party. Does this get any sicker than this?
The Opposition parties don’t like Canada, our troops and you. They prove it everyday.
They are a complete disgrace and entrusting with our country and our security is “OUT OF THE QUESTION’
And now CBC are onto the Climate Talks with Obama…I knew that would be the next SCANDLE against the govt.The TORTURE talks are going down the drain. The CBC is singing the praises of Al GORE…He is saying the govt isn’t reaching their commitments and talking about the oil sands bla bla bla. Whats with Rosemary Barton and her stuffed up PEACOCK ways?Something has to bring her down a few notches.She is saying Harper gets “help from his friends” at Harry Rossen….they are advertising clothes in the name of the PM playing piano. CBC must pay BIG WAGES to their pundits and Liberal guests..huh…re: Don Martin and Susan Smith and Greg Weston who called the Conservatives “GOONS” today in the local paper….to name three of them. Now they are into that bogus pole taken before any testamony. OMG it never ends….the sharks are blood thirsty.
We have the most disgraceful opposition in the history of this country, the Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc Separatists have all teamed up to brand the Conservative government and our Forces who are fighting and dying in the field as war criminals. How disgusting is that? How much closer can they come to banana republic style politics with the media on side?
The Liberals did stoop even lower, looking for donations to fight this further and Dosanjh said he never heard of it, bullsh*t.
I really think when this is over the PM should really demand apologies from all of them to the people of Canada and our Military.
It’s really devastating.
Ontario Girl @ 6:35 – I subscribe to that Liberal feed to get their donation letters (for info purposes). Let me tell you that this last one is beyond disgusting.
Hillier said his troops only rounded up detainees after fire fights, with explosive dust on their person. Even after those fire fights resulted in their buddies being killed, the soldiers treated the prisoners respectfully…
Hillier said in hind sight, when ASKED by the Canadian Govt (read Martin Liberals) to sign the handover agreement on behalf of his country,
he wished now he had said no. It was not his agreement, it was negotiated by Candian officials and the Afghan govt.
Tom Clark said the agreement was ‘ALL HILLIER’ this morning before QP when he does his ‘I know everything about everything’…Clark should admit he was wrong and defamed Hillier.
Can retired Generals sue for defamation or slander? I bet Colvin is protected by whistleblower legislation.
There are some media personalities, their motherships and a couple Liberal and Dipper MPs that should answer for the accusations of war crimes and neglect of duty, and cover ups.
Wilson….I think the Canadian VOTERS will give this coalition party of total “IDIOTS” whats due to them in any future election.
The “TRUTH” will prevail.
PMSH should stand up in Parliament tomorrow and tell the Opps if they are going to continue to call into question the integrity of our troops, their Commanders in the field and the Government of Canada,
we will take it to the people!
Hopefully CPAC will put a tape up of the 3 Generals in committee,
because Kady in 100% CBC Liberal and will tone down the true impact of the Generals statements.
And kady is not near as smart as she thinks she is.
Let’s hope the PM not only stands in Parliament to denounce this despicable exercise in gotcha politics gone mad, he should address the nation, it’s just that serious.
All we can do is send an email to his office.
Good idea, Liz J. The Opposition parties are despicable.
Well…General Gauthier commented that he heard a comment on of all places CBC….and Katie was in the background rolling her head and eyes when he mentioned that. In other words he was saying he heard some remark on CBC….translated,that biased network. BUT after all Katie has to earn her Liberal biased CBc wages…if anyone talks about the “TRUTH” their big paying guest spots would be OVER.
Not to worry…let this joke play out. Layton looked like a deer caught in the cars headlights….lol
Don Martin seems to be somewhat humbled:
…If Mr. Colvin’s version of events is supported and proven, Canada may be guilty of war crimes by breaking international conventions.
But if Mr. Colvin’s version of events lacks supportive documentation and continues to be shredded by witness testimony, not only will his diplomatic reputation be destroyed, but opposition parties championing his case will be humiliated for being duped by one man’s vivid imagination.
Yeah, and what about the media championing his case?
CBC is no friend of Canada or the brave men and women who serve in our military. Kady O Malley has worked hard for her plumb job at CBC. Now she doesn’t have to pretend to be non-partison, she is free to smear who ever she wants with no repercussions. Krista Ericksson appears to have been promoted for writing questions for the Liberals. I am sure they will make every attempt to protect the MP who called the general a war criminal on the national.
It’s wonderful to see Lorrie speak up but it’s Wednesday. How can this be possible that a mere trickle of journalists are entering into the fray and so gingerly at that.
Bec, I meant to respond to that earlier. This is what I like about Lorrie Goldstein – that he doesn’t write knee-jerk columns about something at the drop of a hat. He takes his time and does research and gives the matter some thought. So the result is like savouring a good glass of wine. It’s well worth the wait.
There’s plenty of rot-gut out there that’s fast and cheap.
I am sure they will make every attempt to protect the MP who called the general a war criminal on the national.
Fay, I wonder who that actually was? Anyone know?
Looks like things are going bad for the RED STAR too. Seems that they are “CUTTING” 121 positions. Hope Travers is one of them. He looked quite pasty faced on Tom Clarks show…yeah….he was still smearing the Conservative Govt…..YAWN.
WEIRD but the lead off story on CBC wasn’t the 3 GENERALS testamony. They are so desperate to get their agenda back on the table they are having a “SPECIAL” At Issue panel on tonight to hear their “EXPERT PANEL” ….Never ends. They are going down the toilet and they know it.
Joanne, Martin and his fellow journos think all they have to do is jump out of the boat and leave Colvin adrift, no one will notice. They think they can wash their hands of a bill of goods they bought willingly, thinking they had something on the Harper government. That’s all this exercise was about and it failed, they cannot be trusted, they have zero credibility left.
After listening to our Military Brass today, I can’t imagine any real Canadian not feeling our Forces are in good hands with men of that caliber in charge.
If the opposition MP’s in that committee didn’t feel shame for their actions on this whole sad affair, they simply have no sense of decency.
Ignatieff is no better. He’s done.
“We have discovered that the warming in New Zealand
over the past 156 years was indeed man-made, but it
had nothing to do with emissions of CO2—it was
created by man-made adjustments of the
temperature. It’s a disgrace.”
…- …-
“Uh, oh – raw data in New Zealand tells a different story than the “official” one.
25 11 2009
New Zealand’s NIWA accused of CRU-style temperature faking
The New Zealand Government’s chief climate advisory unit NIWA is under fire for allegedly massaging raw climate data to show a global warming trend that wasn’t there.
The scandal breaks as fears grow worldwide that corruption of climate science is not confined to just Britain’s CRU climate research centre.”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/25/uh-oh-raw-data-in-new-zealand-tells-a-different-story-than-the-official-one/
Librano$$$$
…-
“Liberals Link Fundraising to Torture Allegations
Daniel Proussalidis
Wednesday, November 25, 2009
The federal Liberal Party is using the Afghan torture allegations as a fundraising tool.
CFRA News is in possession of an e-mail from the party’s national director calling for donations to the party to stop the Conservatives from making Canada a place the Grits “can no longer recognize.”
The e-mail also accuses the Conservatives of engaging in “Republican-style attack politics” that undermine Canada’s mission in Afghanistan.
The message from Rocco Rossi contends donations to the Liberals will help the party “find the truth” about the federal government’s awareness of allegations that Taliban prisoners had been tortured by Afghan authorities.”
http://cfra.com/?cat=3&nid=69580
[Portion deleted by blog admin]
Peter Mansbridge on “AT ISSUE”:
“Do you think we will ever see these documents?”
“What seems odd is the retired generals have seen these documents”.
“Where’s the public on this? There was a pole out today”.
“Does public mood influtate Ottawa?”
“We should point out Mulroney is no relation to the former PM”.
“Why won’t they release the documents?”
“Whats the # one question you would have asked them, knowing what you know now?”
“Does this have legs? It’s been STRONG for a week.”
Thats what the Prime Minister has to live with while trying to run this country. Pathetic.
It looks like our PM has to take the lead again and stand up for truth.
I believe this is one of those rare moments in history where an individual has an opportunity to take a stand that will have world-wide repercussions.
So, PM Stephen Harper, please stand up and declare, as Lowell Green believes and Bruce stated, that Global Warming is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on mankind!!
Hindsight is wonderful. These opposition idiots are trying to be a backward nostradamus, predicting the past. How many of us would redo something we did or said four years ago. We thought it was right and proper at the time.
If this keeps up, with them accusing our troops of war crimes I think the PMSH should call an election to let the people decide. I don’t think voters would turn on him for calling an election under the circumstances.
Libs are wrong if they think that by forcing the PM to go to the people he would be punished. I think it would be a decimation of the liberals.
They have basically said that all the families and friends of our troops have raised war criminals. Those of us who support those troops are also guilty of condoning war crimes, according to the opposition.
Have any of them got family in the military, we should out them as supporters of war crimes.
Re global warming: Wasn’t the scam to reduce global warming, if so why are those idiots so worried that warming has stopped for 10 years, without cap and trade, buying carbon credits from Mo in China, and without the icecaps melting and polar bears dying.
We should thank Lizzie for doing all this, without a voice in the HofC.
The planet has been saved, along with our wallets.
I can’t stomach the CBC these days so have no clue as to identity of Mp. I just remember that Bob Rae was front and centre with the attacks last week and he seems to be no where in sight these days.
CBC and CTV sure likes to make a big splash of conservative MP’s apologizing, but never mention apologies made by opposition MP’s.
poll:
Do you think Afghan detainees were tortured?
Yes 31%
No 10%
I don’t care 56%
Unsure 3%
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/11/25/11927636-sun.html
CTV is reporting that they have copies of 2 e-mails sent by Colvin to Peter MacKay’s office in 2006. What ministership did Peter have in 2006. CTV did say the word torture was not mentioned. What date in 2006 were they sent, that info was not mentioned. Mulroney will testify tomorrow and Terry M said, Colvin’s testimony will again be denied when his boss testifies.
One person’s comment on Martin’s article. I’ve been laughing quietly for the past five minutes -
“I look forward to the breathless media reports on Karlheinz Colvins thoughts on the Chuck Cadman insurance policy.
This is a good summary of events on FOI:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/24/the-people-vs-the-cru-freedom-of-information-my-okole%E2%80%A6/
and check this out, note the shaw.ca address:
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=304&filename=1048799107.txt
Maz2, I did a tiny edit to your 9:47 pm comment at the beginning. Please watch the ‘A’ word. Thanks.
[...] Lorrie Goldstein and Kate McMillan have been doing an admirable job in keeping us all informed of the money and poor science behind the global warming movement. [...]