This morning John Ivison of the National Post is questioning the wisdom of TD’s Don Drummond to hook himself up with the likes of the David Suzuki Foundation and Pembina Institute:
…His mistake was to ask two environmental groups, the David Suzuki Foundation and Pembina Institute, to author the report. It would be fair to say that neither group is particularly well-disposed toward the Conservatives — in fact, at the last election Mr. Suzuki backed the carbon tax plan put forward by Stephane Dion’s Liberals. The loathing is mutual — one insider called the two organizations “official opponents of the government.”
The report, which suggests the target can only be achieved by limiting growth in Alberta and Saskatchewan, went down like a stink bomb in a spacesuit in the office of Environment Minister Jim Prentice.
“I’m astounded that TD Bank would be associated with a report that calls for these devastating economic consequences,” Mr. Prentice told the Winnipeg Free Press…
Yes indeed. Alarm bells went off in my head when I first heard that those three were in bed together.
Ivison further questions Drummond’s judgment:
…There’s little doubt Mr. Drummond initiated the exercise to move the debate forward. But for a man who has watched politics from close quarters when he worked at the federal Finance Department, commissioning a report on greenhouse gas emissions from David Suzuki just weeks before the United Nations climate-change summit in Copenhagen showed a surprising naivety. The language in the report is fairly neutral but, given Mr. Suzuki’s publicly expressed view that the Conservatives have moved Canada backwards on climate change, his partiality should have precluded his organization’s involvement.…
According to the Globe, Jim Prentice is calling the report ‘irresponsible’:
…Federal Environment Minister Jim Prentice said there is no way Western Canadians could absorb the deep economic hit projected by the report’s environmentalist authors – the David Suzuki Foundation and the Pembina Institute.
He said their assumptions are way off: The long-term economic conditions they forecast will be avoided by working with the Americans on a continental climate-change plan.
“The conclusions [the report] draws are irresponsible,” said Mr. Prentice in an interview with The Globe and Mail from Kingston, where he was meeting with provincial and territorial environment ministers. Specifically, he said Canadians will not accept the report’s advocacy of emission targets for 2020 that would reduce Canada’s gross domestic product by 3 per cent nationally and 12 per cent in Alberta from business-as-usual estimates…
Meanwhile Hunter wonders why TD would involve itself in such a divisive issue. Westerners are hopping mad.
Maybe it’s time for Canadians to stand up and shout out that we won’t take it anymore. We are tapped out and just starting to get back on our feet.
We don’t need no more stinkin’ taxes – carbon or otherwise.
And we sure don’t need any threat to Canadian unity.
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Update: Welcome Jack’s Newswatch readers!
Welcome Newsbeat 1 readers!
And a very warm welcome as always to Canadian News Reader fans!
Carbon report’s bloody portent – Kevin Libin, National Post (and check out the comments!):
…And so the pro-Kyoto groups behind the study may not have done themselves any favours here. Their continued insistence that what Mr. Drummond described as “a considerable disruption to labour markets” in some of Canada’s largest sectors — in exchange for more money, from carbon taxes, for public transit, wind turbines and other green subsidies — is a tolerable price to pay for environmental absolution risks revealing a stark disconnection between environmentalist NGOs and the reality of the condition of the average family…
Muddled models – Peter Foster, Financial Post:
…The TD’s Mr. Drummond apparently doesn’t “endorse” the report. He told me he just wanted people to have “something to shoot at.”
But such a study, while an inviting target, should hardly be the starting point for rational analysis of the greatest policy threat to freedom and prosperity in living memory.
What it does confirm is how far the policy “debate” has been taken over by activists, supported by Big Corporate money.
That’s right. Big Environment.
* * * *
Saturday Update: Great letter in today’s National Post by Victor Godin of Vancouver:
Re: The True Cost Of Carbon Reduction, editorial, Oct. 30.
TD Bank made a curious choice in selecting economist Mark Jaccard and “environmentalist” David Suzuki to map out a long term development strategy for Canada…
…As for David Suzuki’s industrial planning expertise, he studied fruit fly mating patterns when Elvis was in the army. The term “environmentalist” is not a credential and it carries no weight in economic planning.
Try again TD.
Suzuki-Gore-DrummondTD Follies.
Gore’s Insider Tip: Buy T-D ploughshares/carbon credits/indulgences now.
…-
“Big snowstorm wallops Colorado, Wyoming
An early blast of winter walloped some western states with deep snow and slowly pushed into Nebraska and Kansas Thursday, bringing blizzard conditions to the eastern plains and causing treacherous roads, closed schools and hundreds of canceled flights.
The fall storm spread 3 feet of snow and left much higher drifts across parts of northern Utah, Wyoming and Colorado, before its leading edge hit neighboring states just to the east.
Wind-driven snow built to blizzard conditions over much of eastern Colorado. The weather service warned most area roads would be impassible Thursday night because of blowing snow and near-zero visibility.
The heaviest October snowfall in the Denver area in a decade forced the closure of hundreds of schools and businesses. Roads across the region remained snowpacked and icy.
“Big storms like these, they seem to come around every 10 to 12 years,” said Kyle Fredin, a National Weather Service meteorologist.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2374383/posts
No, we’re not quite tapped out. McGuinty’s Green Act has yet to take effect.
Potato, I’m glad you brought that up. I wanted to use this Lorrie Goldstein link somewhere.
Perfect!
Some times I wonder why I bank at TD.
It may take a few days but this report will end up damaging the Liberals and may be the final nail in their coffin, its really that simple. For all their bombastic rhetorical approach to Kyoto, Global Warming and now Climate Change the LPC’s only real goal was to take cash from non Liberal voting Western Canadians and buy votes in Ontario and Quebec. This report will drive the final wedge between Western Canada and Eastern Canada because, Ontario and Quebec can still be counted on to put 70 Liberal MP’s into office. All of this leads me to one comment…if Ignatief is as brilliant a thinker as they say he is, why on earth would he want to lead a party that has a great majority of its MP’s committed to robbing Western Canada to appease 60 ridings in Toronto and Montreal ?? Manley, Tobin, Rock and McKenna all recognized the obvious, Ignatief not so much.
R & R – Personally I like TD bank itself but this excessive partisanship is getting to me. I’ll be discussing it with the branch for sure.
Thanks for the link, Joanne! Without the money from the TD, there would have been no report.
Did they purposely seek out two western environmental groups so they can point and say, see even westerners think it’s okay to grab from the west to save the east? NEP II!
Drummond is a is a Liberal, like so many Liberals he’s all shook up about the state of the outfit at this point and it seems to be affecting his judgment.
I was planning to moved my account to ATB from TD. And this was an excuse to get me off my butt and do it. It wasn’t a big account but made me feel better.
just so you Westerners don’t feel isolated … I am in Ontario and am MAD AS HELL over this turn of events. Unbelievable politically bias move by TD Canada Trust.
I have been a loyal customer of TD Canada Trust for decades. I have influenced others, including other family members, to do business with TD, and here I am wrestling with a compelling thought to pull my entire portfolio and move it elsewhere. This was a very bad move by TD Economics division. To provide funds (earned by my patronage, btw) to the likes of the suzuki foundation and pembina institute, for a bogus, misleading, inaccurate report, is tough to take.
I believe there are many thousands of like minded folks out there, who may wish to contact TD Head Office and their branch to voice their concerns. I will be doing that today. Whether I change financial institutions over this is still to be decided.
oh and does anyone know if the ’suzuki institute’ enjoys ‘Charitable Organization’ tax status? If so, I hope the powers to be reassess this and soon. I have heard suzuki dump on the Conservatives, and PM Harper through the obedient media just one too many times for my liking.
Bit O/T here,but did any of you read Don ‘broaaaaaawdcast’ Newman’s post on cbc ‘Iggy’s new man and the nervous nellie’s?’It is laid out there (from someone that has the inside track) that Cauchon was told not to bother trying a run for leader of Libs,by none other than Powercorp..reason being,’Bob’s the man!’ If that doesn’t put the fear in you Ont.residents,and the rest of Canada,what will?
BTW,link to the Newman column now up at Natnewswatch.
as for the TD thing,I have a new car loan thru TD,and will be looking at re-financing thru my local CU.As a Manitoban,it looks like we will be hit hard by this study,and as a prov.that has been pretty much unscathed by the economic downturn,I say,leave us alone!Also,the hubby happens to work in an industry that is a direct target,and my boy is a proud ‘Alberta oil-patch’ worker.So..to all involved in this massive scam,that will kill our economy..I say,take a flying leap.
“ But for a man who has watched politics from close quarters when he worked at the federal Finance Department, commissioning a report on greenhouse gas emissions from David Suzuki just weeks before the United Nations climate-change summit in Copenhagen showed a surprising naivety“.
Come ON ! Don Drummond is a lot of things, but naive is not one of them.
I wish I banked at TD so I could move my account.
Everybody out west has to relax. The CPC enjoys tremendous support here in Ontario too and they don’t want to be doing anything to upset that support and I believe there would be plenty of people upset if they even think of implementing any climate change initiatives.
I lived in Alberta through the last NEP and lost two homes as a result. If there’s even a hint of CPC support for this proposed transfer of wealth I will be the first to cry out.
I do wish though that someone in government would at least address the growing numbers of people who are speaking out as climate change ‘deniers’.
I don’t believe for even a milli-second that the Conservatives are serious about climate change and that is one of the main reasons they still have my support but they have to either shit or get off the pot here. I’m tired of having everyone pussyfoot around this giant elephant in the room while these climate change activists go about establishing a foothold in our day to day lives.
Here’s how silly it gets: Under the guise of protecting the environment my workplace has eliminated paper towels in the washrooms (they installed blowers) and in the break rooms and now if someone spills coffee we run to a bathroom stall to get a wad of toilet tissue to sop up the mess.
They’ve also stopped using paper to post notices so we all have to rush to the lone computer available to us to find out where we’re going to be working that particular shift.
To counter their stupidity I’ve told my manager that every night when I go home I tear up at least two blank 8×11 pages from my printer and toss them in the garbage and I encourage everyone else I work with to do the same. This might be just as stupid a reaction to their action but at least I’m playing a part in employing forestry workers.
I don’t see any other bank in Canada being so blatantly partisan. I wonder why TD does this?
Perhaps the TD should get swamped with emails in protest?
Does anyone have the email address of the head-office?
I too will be closing out my account at the local TD – I’m in Ontario.
Well Joanne, it’s because they have TORONTO in their name, lol! There’s no need to wonder why.
If David Suzuki was in any way concerned aboout global warming/climate change, then why does he own property on Quadra Island in the Gulf Islands off Vancouver, or property in the suburb of trendy Kitsilano which is about 10 feet above sea level?
lol! Soccermom – The Liberal Bank of Toronto.
Okay, all you bankers, what do we use….BMO, CIBC, Scotia.
are any of these any good?
Ha! Joanne, good one!
We use CIBC, have forever. Seem to be OK.
My husband and I are strongly considering transferring our accounts, RRSPs and the whole nine yards from TD to ATB.
BTW, isn’t Liberal Frank Mckenna a big wig with TD? Liberal through and through.
The true cost of carbon reduction
National Post
Published: Friday, October 30, 2009
It’s fascinating to see the reactions to the new TD Bank report about the costs of meeting the Conservative government’s greenhouse-gas reduction targets for the year 2020. According to economic modelling by Simon Fraser University economist Mark Jaccard, the costs of reducing emissions by 20% between now and then are pretty simple to summarize: We just have to bash the hell out of Alberta.
Overall economic growth across Canada could supposedly be preserved by taxing carbon and redistributing the revenue to individuals to cover home-heating costs, but as the very presence of the word “carbon” in that clause suggests, Alberta’s economy would be 8.5% smaller in 2020 than in the business-as-usual scenario, while B.C. and Saskatchewan would take more modest blows. Jobs in nine provinces would increase over the next decade under the 20% reduction target, but in Alberta they would decline 1.7%. This helps explain why the Conservatives have been reluctant to opt for the same kind of “international leadership” on the climate-change file that our opposition parties claim to want.
The TD climate-change report was partly funded by the David Suzuki Foundation and Alberta’s own Pembina Institute; it thus comes with strong environmentalist credentials as well as the economic ones that flow from Prof. Jaccard’s participation. One can’t help thinking that the report is probably overoptimistic about the effects of diverting massive amounts of capital from profitable uses in Alberta to lower-margin sectors elsewhere in the country, or (more likely) simply driving it out of Canada altogether. But the message that Alberta inevitably must suffer most, with its neighbours on either side not too far behind, under any serious and earnest policy of carbon taxation? Well, that’s not news.
This is one of the main reasons that Canadian politicians — as much under the Martinera Liberals as under Stephen Harper’s conservatives –haven’t done much to meet our nominal goals under the Kyoto Protocol, even if their green rhetoric suggests otherwise. The harsh truth is that significant carbon reductions inevitably will do major damage to the economies of all Western countries, with special harm imposed on oil-and gas-producing regions.
In many European countries, where environmentalism is more popular and regionalism less pronounced, national governments might be willing to take the political hit for tanking their economies in the name of carbon reduction. But in Canada, such an effort would shake the very pillars of Confederation. And we are glad Mr. Harper refuses to go down this road.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2161987
I am thankful that my family and business use the BMO. I feel sorry for all the loyal Canadians that work for Toronto Dominion… [edited by blog admin]
Fay, sorry but I had to delete some of your comment for legal reasons. I hear what you’re saying though.
Jen, thanks for that Post link. Fascinating.
Well, I would like to see some kind of clear statement in that regard.
How many of those european countries does it take days to cross, and how many different climates do they have at any one time. How can anyone compare the needs of one of their countries with Canada. But then, I imagine most of the greenies are clueless of the size of our country. Just like people of Ont cities are really clueless about our prairie living conditions. (not meant to insult) When they come here for a holiday they are surprised, what, no mall in every town, no taxies, subway or whatever. No fast food chains.
And the lack of such services can be blamed on head honchos based in Toronto, deciding to centralize services. How many TOians have to travel 30 miles to the only gas station for miles. I remember years ago when some manager of a chain store was transferred from Toronto. He immediately cancelled the order for garden supplies for the spring, saying no way would that much sell. OOPS, within 2 weeks all supplies were sold out, and they lost a lot of money as more couldn’t be got. He was used to those little lawns etc, couldn’t believe the size of our lots, yards etc. He transferred back within a year. Same goes for clothing orders, no way you have that many women needing size 2, so they get about 3 items in.
When we have cities larger than countries there will always be a problem. But, because of population concentration in said counties, they assume we are nothing.
And how much to these greenies contribute to the problem by travelling the world to tell us how selfish we are…
[Portion deleted by blog admin]
I too, have transferred my accounts to our local credit union from T.D. I have also emailed the TD to let them know why. As more of us “westerners” (I am from B.C.) communicate our dissatisfaction with them, it should affect their business. As Wilson says, “money talks”. My first suspicions about TD were earlier this year when they contradicted Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada regarding some optimism about economic recovery (6 days later), and just prior to M.I. threatening a June election. They were the ONLY large Canadian bank to dispute Mark Carney’s projections and provide “talking points” for M.I./Liberals and the media. And yes, Joanne, I also feel sorry for the employees who might experience the fall-out, but not for the CEO’s who support this left-wing garbage.
PET Cemetery, TC Dooglas/MIFry Combined Unit Announcements.
…-
“N.L. breast cancer lawsuit ends in $17.5M settlement
Victims of Newfoundland and Labrador’s biggest public health failure reached a $17.5-million settlement Friday in their class-action lawsuit over hundreds of botched breast cancer tests.”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/10/30/11584306-cp.html
“I’ll be getting my #H1N1 vaccine after priority groups have had theirs first. Working together, Canadians will beat this pandemic.”
http://twitter.com/M_Ignatieff/status/5288836842
Watch this video of Lord Monckton on the Copenhagen treaty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40
and read through some more on this at: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/03/the-copenhagen-treaty-draft-wealth-transfer-defined-now-with-dignity-penalty/
If these guys don’t scare the pants off you, I’ll understand. Our politicians are lining us up for some pretty hard times for no reason at all. Be happy though, your local TD Bank branch is helping you to see more clearly now.
I would be very surprised if things didn’t get violent about this. All I need to do is read some of the comments on CBC or CTV on this subject and I’m seeing red. You know, THAT kind of RED.
I’ll just go back to work doing what I do – drill a gas well. And send some more GST to the feds.
Jo — I didn’t have time to go through all the comments in this thread but I just read a SHOCKER at this thread at JN by regular “jt.”
Wait for this!
Ed Clark is the CEO of the TD Bank. Known as “Red Ed” of Trudeau’s time — he was the civil servant who implemented the NEP.
Wow! This gets more interesting and scary at the same time.
Wow! Sandy, I don’t understand how the TD bank thinks that their customers will go along with all this partisanship.
Sources on Red Ed Clark, CEO of TD Bank
The TD info page.
Wikipedia — scroll down to “Western Canada reaction” to the NEP
What goes around comes around!
Does anyone think the TD would publish the number of customers and the amount of money involved with their leaving the bldg.
Goreacle Report: Please stop with the “scaremoneyring” willya.
‘S’bad ’nuff being called manbearswineAGW. And, can the LizardMay “left-wing greens” stuff and the Boob Mao Stlong Lae schtick.
…-
“When people overstate happenings that aren’t necessarily climate change-related, or set up as almost certainties things that are difficult to establish scientifically, it distracts from the science we do understand.
The danger is they can be accused of scaremongering.
Also, we can all become described as kind of left-wing greens.”
“Met Office Climate Official on Arctic Ice Forecasts: “The danger is they can be accused of scaremongering.”
30 10 2009
I’ve been very critical of statements made by Dr. Mark Serreze of the National Snow and Ice Data Center. It seems that I’m not the only one critical of his statements to the press. – Anthony
Excerpts from The Times, UK story:
Exaggerated claims undermine drive to cut emissions, scientists warn
Mark Henderson, Science Editor”
urlm.in/diol (WUWT?)
Here’s the source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bDb9hUWRZnkC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=ed+clark+nep&source=bl&ots=dd_cBcSwHw&sig=RPM7QxJmPJRIi5Mnzg2zKvONhPE&hl=en&ei=PXHrSqHCCYfuMeuunIQM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=ed%20clark%20nep&f=false
Ask me if i’m p***ed about this. I paid the price the last time around with a lost job due to the NEP. Now my family’s financial future are affected by these skunks again? Don Drummond had a funny little smirk on his face while being interviewed on BNN yesterday. it took me a while to clue in. Who is on the board at TD that would even consider doing what they did? Some others have as well, check one comment at SDA. This does not have anything to do with AGW, just economic rapage of western canada, by the center. do any of you posting here now have an understanding of how we in the west feel, dealing with central Canada politically or financially?
I bank with them, corporate and personal, my RRSPS & investments are held at TD Waterhouse and my business and personal property insurance are through TD Insurance. I am also a shareholder. If I wasn’t stuck out here on this well, I would be down at my TD Bank speaking with my branch manager.
Read their disclaimer, plausible deniability on a bank associated with this report that seeks what, influence? economic advantage? Political advantage? Or are they just being the “unofficial opposition” for a political party that can’t get it’s game together and obviously has a vindictive hate on for anything outside of central Canada?
And what about customers who have loans or insurance products and businesses located in ALberta and our neighboring provinces? Do they get stuck with higher loan provisions, loan rates, cash calls, based on the results of this biased report? Yeah, I’ll be looking for another financial institituion to do business with. A local one. you can be sure of that.
What was the last thing we were mad at the TD over? This hasn’t been the first thing this year. This bank is obviously far too partisan and I take my hats off to all of you proactive customers. That indeed is how you send them a message and I like the feistiness of jt, well done!
We have discussed the Clark connection before and it may have been the same time that we had the other outrage @ “The Toronto Liberal Bank”.
To remember the subject would allow an archive search but I’m at a loss.
A comment* from WUWT? (see above).
As the commenter points out, the finger-pointing within the AGWarmist religion is starting.
Say goodnight, Lorne.
Goodnight Lorne.
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“*wws (16:17:17)
What’s pathetic is that all of the scaremongering (An Inconvenient Truth, anyone?) was just fine as long as it looked like it was driving a friendly political resolution.
But now that some of the brighter warmists are starting to realize that they’re just shooting themselves in the foot, it’s “hold on! We know that story was way overhyped, don’t blame us it was those other guys that did it!!!”
They’re just trying to figure out a way to regain the trust they forfeited with their lies. Too late.”
Bec. The last outrage against the TD also has something to do with Drummond. If I remember he was spouting doom and gloom, and things were a lot worse than PMSH was saying. Probably happened around the time of the first bank failure in the USA.
Did he support the coalition, can’t remember.
Heh. Follow the one above. There’s pages full, Bec.
I watched Lord Monckton on Glenn Beck today. They discussed the up and coming Climate Change treaty in Copenhagen in Dec.
You can catch the whole show on video here. I urge everyone to watch it. This is not really about global warming it’s about wealth distribution.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/112744
Don Drummond’s name pops up again here and here.
JT, I had comment moderation on so you’re comment was a bit out of order for the context. I just took it off for now but you were probably referring to your previous comment.
THE COST OF REDUCING:-http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2161950
Carbon report’s bloody portent
Kevin Libin, National Post
Published: Friday, October 30, 2009
The Pembina Institute and the David Suzuki Foundation authored a report that examines the costs of the greenhouse gas emissions reductions targets set by the federal government. ‘Ottawa has committed to a reduction of 20% from 1990 levels by 2020′.
—————————————————————————————
Report lands like stink bomb
John Ivison, National Post
Published: Friday, October 30, 2009
Mr. Drummond was curious about the regional economic impact of the Conservative government’s plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 20% below 2006 levels by 2020, and commissioned a study to investigate. So far, so good.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=2161960
Why the two stories check the difference to the government ‘level’ commitment
Am I missing something or is this Clark related to Tom Clark? Because if he is , I am getting very nervous about the future of this country I love!!!
I went to my local TD and asked if they had an email address that I could get to voice my displeasure. They had none, but took my email address and promised to get back to me. To my surprise I got a reply:
Matthew Cram
Manager, Corporate Communications
TD Bank Financial Group
416-983-1514
matthew.cram@td.com
http://www.td.com/mediaroom
I will be emailing him this afternoon. Since he is a manager I am sure that he is willing to hear from anyone that has a beef with TD.
Wayt to go, Cal! Please keep us posted. Thanks.
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