I just caught the end of Robert Fife’s report on tonight’s National.
In case you missed it, there does seem to be an air of cooperation among the Liberals and the Government lately. We saw progress today with the meeting between Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and two Liberals, Scott Brison and John McCallum.
We may now know the reason for the Liberal party’s apparent desire to back off from the Coalition – Fife reported tonight that the Liberals have been consulting with Constitutional experts and it seems that the Governor General would very likely call an election if the Harper Government fell over a vote of non-confidence, rather than allow the three opposition parties to take over. So obviously the Liberals are now getting cold feet because they know that they would be decimated in an election, if recent polls are any indication.
I hope to get some kind of link up regarding this gem from Fife. If anyone else happens to see it, please let me know if I’ve interpreted the report correctly.
Lloyd Robertson said that this could be a win-win. Well maybe so for the two major parties and Canadians in general, but certainly not for Jack Layton. Industry Minister post goes poof!
And Duceppe will probably just shrug.
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Tuesday Update: CTV has the clip up now with Robert Fife.
10:25 Update: Jack Layton was just saying on Hamilton’s CHML (Bill Kelly show) that the Coalition is alive and well, and that there is no possible way the GG would allow an election if the Government fell at the end of January. Period. Case closed. He said it would be constitutionally impossible!
So somebody is either misinformed or lying here…
You know what to do, Blue Nation!
Siscoe – Layton being Layton.
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Evening Update: Planning to take a bit of time off here to get ready for Christmas. I’ll be posting if there are any major developments, but I think it’s good for all of us to get away from politics for a while. We’ll need lots of energy and enthusiasm in January.
Merry Christmas!!
And I want to send my regulars readers an extra special wish for a Christmas full of peace and joy. You know who you are. Thanks for making my job here such a pleasure. I wouldn’t do this without your feedback and support.
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Thursday Update: Welcome, Newsbeat 1 readers!
I thought that everyone knew that the GG has been mandated by the Queen to do exactly what the Prime Minister tells her to do.
I honestly thought that Harper prorogued parliament to save the opposition from themselves and not to keep his government afloat.
I honestly thought that Harper prorogued parliament to save the opposition from themselves and not to keep his government afloat.
Joe, I heard that somewhere too. Apparently there were some Liberal backbenchers who told him they would have made sure they were ‘sick’ or something if a confidence vote were to take place because they were not happy with the Coalition idea. The theory goes that Harper prorogued Parliament so that these Liberals wouldn’t have to be ‘outed’ and admonished by their own party.
But on the surface the big players in the Coalition seemed to sure that the GG would ask them to govern.
I wonder if our letter-writing campaign has had some influence?
Winner- Conservative Party, voters now have a coalition with seperatist ingrained in their mind and will remember that whenever the next election occurs.. Polls show that consistently.
Winner- Got rid of Dion earlier than planned, paving the way for increased fundraising.
Winner- Gilles Duceppe, has shown great political savvy in getting both Dion and Layton to cede demands from a seperatist party.
Loser- Stephane Dion, ’nuff said.
Loser- Jack Layton and the NDP, who will be lucky to maintaion official party status after the next election. Wacko Jacko’s scheme to get power in government has woken Canadian’s to the scary thought of another socialist (Bob Rae?), thinking the nanny state can spend unlimited $.
Losers- All Canadian’s for having to put up with this pathetic power grab at a time when the government should be solely focused on the economy.
The GG doesn’t do what the PM wants, who believes that? The crown being the vestigage of democracy in the first world, is the seat of transfer of power from royalty to the electorate. The GG’s job is to make sure we don’t trample on that pledge – everyone a vote on the basic principles of democracy.
I saw it too, Joanne. I went to the CTV website, it is there but I was unable to retrieve it for some reason.
I will believe it when I see it, for more than a day.
You know, just having this Industry post dangled within Layton’s grasp and then taken away may have made this whole coalition thing worth while.
And Joanne, I am sure the overwhelming amount of phone calls, emails and letters waiting for her when the GG returned home from her European trip has made an impact on her decision making.
I just heard a rebroadcast. Fife said that the Liberals had been told that the GG might just call an election rather than risk a ‘constitutional crisis.’ So I was pretty close.
Winner: The new Conservative-Liberal coalition.
And Joanne, I am sure the overwhelming amount of phone calls, emails and letters waiting for her when the GG returned home from her European trip has made an impact on her decision making
I believe you’re right, Erwin.
Bec, thanks for that. We’ll keep watching for it.
Can’t wait to see the liberals indicate they will support the budget, then have the tories add cutting of party subsidies.
Should be fun to watch.
I have felt that in his earlier move to withdraw funding for political parties, Harper was after a shake-up of some sort. I think there is a good chance he got wind of coalition plan and needed to explose the scheme a.s.a.p. At the very least, he needed to move past the disfunctional fighting that was happening between the government and the opposition in the previous Parliament. So, I think the maneuver was a strategy to shift the position of the opposition, such that he could create an alliance that would allow him to govern. This could have been a group of break-away liberals. As it turns out, I think he will draw ongoing support from Liberals lead by Iggy. I suspect that Harper and Iggy are not that different philosophically (both relatively centrist). We shall see, but I think Iggy at the help provide opportunity for greater stability than would have been the case with a break-away group of Liberals. Harper’s the man!
Just watched our CTV National news and from what Mr Fife reported the meeting with Flaherty and MaCallum et al went well. It appeared from Fife’s report that the Liberals seemed satisfied with the financial report that Flaherty gave them. I’m parphrasing.
I am sure that the polls had a lot to do with how the Liberals looked at Tory numbers. Not to discount the emails and letters, because I am sure that they also had an effect whether sent to the MSM, GG or individual MP’s, but for once a plethora of polls detailing the electorate’s preferences, should an election be called, influenced their decision.
There were no guarantees that the GG would overide the advice of her Prime Minister and allow a coalition to take over government, she takes the advice of the Prime Minister in such a situation, not some ad hoc coalition of the losers of the last election.
Caandians will take all that into consideration in the next election. I’ll make a prediction – bigger turn out to vote next time.
Nice to see the entire PM Harper, interview posted at; Right as Rain.
It gives a much better perspective, seeing the whole interview vs the MDL splice and dice.
A much happier, PMSH but he has lost a ton of weight.
Likely stress and the flu…
Has Iggy denounced the coalition yet?
Is Iggy still meeting with ‘a special group of advisors’ so Liberals can present their own parallel budget to the government? Yes, that’s why the
Bobsy Twins are demanding to see the books.
Any details on why the coup wouldn’t meet the smell test? Timing perhaps, pulling off their coup before they voted ‘for’ the throne speech would have made the difference?.
If Libs and Dippers (without the Bloc) have the numbers next election, they will form a coalition.
The main objection Canadians have is the Bloc being a ‘partner’.
Now that their constitution lawyers have figured out how it can be done, they’ll do it,
if PMSH gets a smaller minority next election, LibDippers would take the government if they had the combined numbers (like they did have after the 2006 election).
The coalition threat will ALWAYS be there for any minority Conservative government.
The libranos aren’t afraid of an election. Ask Wornout Kantstandya. Just today he said they have hardly any debt and thanks to an impending injection of taxpayer funds, they’re good to go.
Riiiiight
Note: The Liberals and the Liberal media are still repeating the fabrication that “Iggy is a thoughtful guy and that is why his name is LAST on the Liberal coalition document.”
Do these people think we Canadians are really stupid enogh to keep falling for Liberal fairy tales.
The document was published. Iggy’s name is THIRD. That’s right – he was right near the front of the line before 73 of his other caucus members.
Iggy had already staged his coup to oust Dion and was signing up to be the unelected Prime MInister.
Joanne,
Detailed poll by poll results for Vancouver South are out
at:
http://www.elections.ca/scripts/OVR2008/PDFs/59034.pdf
or:
http://www.elections.ca/scripts/OVR2008/CSVs/59034.csv
Ballot box #108 no letter extension is totally missing.
Other split ballot boxes had numerical extensions not letter extension.
Interesting part is that content of #108B ballot box was merged with content of mobile ballot box #502 for combined total of 186 votes.
I somehow recall that I was speculating that at least two ballot boxes went missing.
I went for walk through the Liblogs and found, not to my suprise, that they will have no problem turning more people against them with their arrogant attitudes.
Apparently many of them think that Canadians need more “education” in electoral matters, of course in Libspeak that means indoctrination by way of brainwashing, drink the Kool Aid kiddies.
Iggy will not fare much better than Dion, there’s something about these professorial types whereby that have a complete disconnect from reality and what resonates with ordinary proud Canadians.
Bruce: “…Apparently many of them think that Canadians need more “education” in electoral matters…”
They are rather full of it – I think everyone “gets” that it was “legal” (although still IMHO a coup), it’s the partnering with the Bloc that sticks in so many Canadian craws. If the Quebeckers that vote Bloc as a protest or regional vote didn’t understand before this, that the ROC sees the Bloc as a big middle finger pointed at us (to paraphrase Chucker, I believe), they do now. About time, too.
One thing for sure, this coalition gang sure has welded Canadians to a party or line! All I want now is to kick Jacks ass so hard he’ll only bounce once before he’s outta sight!
The thought that 38-seat Jack could get his hands on the levers of power is also a big “eff you”. He irritates me more than Duceppe does, with his party’s talk on “social infrastructure spending”, i.e. nation-wide free childcare. Sheesh.
Demanding to “see the books” looks like a last ditch effort to appear important and knowledgeable. It’s like saying they know better what to do in any and all situations. Wow, did Brison and McCallum look important leaving the meeting with our Finance Minister or what?
How about they tell the public how they really managed to have such huge surpluses and how the EI $54 billion illegally taken/borrowed played into it? Wonder if Flaherty asked them how they think he should pay that back in the next 12 months as ordered by the SC, they’d have the answer?
The Fife clip is up now.
“If Libs and Dippers (without the Bloc) have the numbers next election, they will form a coalition.”
That will never happen Wilson. The thought of socialists at the cash register while in power will only help the Conservative’s, both by getting out their vote and by giving them votes from the Lib’s, Greens, and Bloc.
Polls showing Conservative’s in the mid to high forties are because Canadian’s do not want a seperatist party having the controlling vote, and as well most Canadian’s (82% voted against the NDP) do not want Wacko Jacko making major decisions for Canadian’s.
Iggy is going to be in a deep hole whenever the next election is. He will be asked wether he will form a coalition on the first day of the campaign. Conservative ads will show the Three Stooges at their signing photo-op, and Iggy’s signature at the bottom of the agreement. Voters will still worry about a coalition, wether Iggy dismisses it or not.
It’s like the opposition parties sent a skid of TNT to the PM, with instructions to “Return To Sender:.
[...] Blue Like You | Fascinating [...]
I found this when I was looking at MSN news(not MSM) this morning, seems like a very good interview with Steve Murphy. (only one take required, no do overs required) Maybe there is some hope for the media.
http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081215%2fharper_atlantic_081215
Did they splice and dice on CTV national news?
I have refused to watch CTV or CBC because the both get me too riled up.
Also, had a good conversation with a friend of mine from Alberta who used to work in the communications industry who is a political junkie, conservative.
He was blaming Harper’s bad timing for this fiasco. I was utterly shocked by his position! After a lot of talking, he still laid a portion of the blame on Harper. That Harpers issues stemmed from the feud with the national media. That is, he needs to give them some crumbs in order for them to back off and occupy their time rather than have them go “looking/creating” stories. (I think he meant to make them feel important)
I argued that would not work, as they are predominantly lefties and cited coverage of past months events, Harpers rep abroad, Stockwell Day’s treatment of their bias as examples of their bias.
My main argument was that most Canadians have been lulled or turned off by politics and as a whole, have an attention span of 30 seconds to 2 minutes for political news. They get their fill via CBC, CTV or the sub units (Newsnet, Newsworld).
He remained firmly entrenched in his position.
Interesting how even some conservatives still feel this is Harpers fault.
I am just hoping the good that comes out of this whole thing is:
-citizens will be more engaged
-next election voter turnout will be more than 57%
-people will be more aware of who actually has the “hidden” agenda.
-all the ammo the left gave the CPC for next election
Don’t ever trust the libranos. Especially Count Ig. He seems too much like the deadly snake in Kipling’s The Jungle Book stories.
Don’t be gloating that they appear to be broke.They are possibly sitting on vast silos of possible pilfered tax money. I cite various and sundry past boondoggles like Adscam, The Gun Registry, Traing Programs and the EI funds shuffle. The house ALWAYS rakes some $$ in off the top. And – don’t ever forget powercorp and the mothercorp.
Directly and indirectly, the libs will come blazing at PMSH and the conservatives with some of the most revolting attack ads imaginable. “…men with guns etc…” will seem to be mere child’s play compared to the shitstorm they want to dump on PMSH. The libs do not, and cannot tolerate the thought that Iggie could well become only the third lib leader who might not become PM. They absolutely abhor their seats on the “opposite” side of the HOC.
Worse case scenario for the libs is that 8 or 10 years down the road, they’ll surreptitiously ooze out their moolah when the dauphin comes of age and is deemed to be more than suitably manipulatable for the benefit of the backroom yahoos.
love,
tj
t.e.& o.e.
Shane in the ‘wack said,
“Interesting how even some conservatives still feel this is Harpers fault.”
I have a few of those in my life too and in most cases it is the media. In the case of an Albertan, I find it goes back to the early days.
He is not a smoozer to the media, he never was but if you have met him, were a constituent, the man is a saint. Pure and simple, salt of the earth.
Does anyone honestly think that Dithers Lite, AKA Iggy will actually make it to 24 Sussex without a dinner invitation from the PM? I predict he will be the third in what I hope will a long line of Liberal leaders to never make it to the PM’s office.
I thought the possibility of change was when McCallum congratulated PMSH for reaching out (paraphrasing) after the meeting with JF yesterday. Bisson still wants to see the books. But I think the thaw is starting, and Layton will explode.
CANADIANS AND QUEBECERS on the statement would be an out for the GG. She could ask, are Quebecers not canadians? If the liberals vote against the Budget, it is election time and the coalition is running scared, not the other way around.
Will Jack/Olivia go back to subsidized housing again.
re: Harper’s fault – yes, too bad that even some conservatives believe the opposition/MSM spin on that.
Seeing as though we now know that Harper’s only fault was smoking out the coalition for all Canadians to see….that’s one fault I support.
By the way, don’t forget to participate in the budget consultation on the Minister of Finance’s website. The outreach is there for those who want to acknowledge it.
The liberals need to understand that they haven’t cornered the market on party or leader loyalty, and I do believe that in outing the coalition that Mr. Harper woke up that sleeping giant of conservative support that I know exists but until now unable to find its voice.
I think Harper has the upper hand right now, but he has to play his cards very carefully. If I were him I would attempt to build a strong relationship with the Liberals. It would do two things – actually get some kind of economic stimulus plan out there (assuming it is needed), and it would also allow the Liberals to help wear it if it fails. If it’s a success, they can also take some credit, so it’s in their best interest to work with the Government too.
I hope Jack Layton gets turfed by his party over this one. He is beyond contempt.
I’m rooting for Howard Hampton regaining the support of those of the NDP support base who feel let down by the whole coaltion exercise….I do believe they exist.
I wonder what Layton’s prepared to do to hold Iggy to his signature on the coalition agreement? What can he do? Sue the Liberals?
“I wonder what Layton’s prepared to do to hold Iggy to his signature on the coalition agreement?”
CC,
I think that it could be as simple as the fact that Marc Garneau, DID NOT print his name at all and “the IgS”, DID NOT PRINT.
Legal documents and all of that….
I don’t think we should assume the coalition is dead. After all Iggy has not come out and renounced it. If he truly was not in favor of it why has he not stated so in public?
Don’t ever forget the Liberals will do anything for power and money.
Joanne,
Iggy is getting some trashing at Red Star today.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/554266
Just announced on cbc, Sun media laying off 600 full time employees by end of December 2008. They blame falling ad dollars, economy blah. I find it funny that all the newspapers and other media who are laying off workers never mention their bias against either Bush, Republicans, PMSH or conservatives.
I think readers have finally rebelled and will no longer put up with the lies and twisted views of so called journalists.
As for Jack Layton’s statement that the GG would not call an election for whatever reason is very wrong.
She would/should not even invite them to form a govt for Canada, when the coalition does not include all Canadians. It includes Canadians and Quebecers. If Quebec is not part of Canada why are we sending money to them hand over fist. If Quebec is not part of Canada why should the Bloc have any say in how our govt is run.
This is in no way PMSH’s fault, other than smoking out the coup planners. Notice Goodale and Jennings are missing in action. And don’t trust the liberals and their apparent about face re co-operating with PMSH. What other plans do they have in their hidden agenda.
Good one MaryT. Hidden agenda indeed. Now, who are the ones with the hidden agenda? Hmmmmm……..
Your right too that the Liberals cannot be trusted and must not be trusted. Never let your guard down when it involves Liberals.
”The thought of socialists at the cash register while in power will only help the Conservative’s, both by getting out their vote and by giving them votes from the Lib’s, Greens, and Bloc.”
EXACTLY paulstuff,
that’s why we must keep the notion alive.
Do not let Iggy and his merry band of government stealers off the hook.
If Iggy and the Libs want to use the coalition as a hammer, then THEY are keeping it alive.
good point frmgrl re: Ibby not publicly denouncing the coalition. I’d bet he’d use it to his advantage if necessary. Someone may have told him it’s good strategy, but the longer he keeps the public guessing the worse it is for the Liberal party doing what’s necessary to define and establish its base. Canadians are going to be suspicious of Iggy in the same way that they were suspicious of the Green Shift once it was defined by the Harper team.
Iggy’s fence-sitting on the coalition just makes him look like Mr. Paul Dithers, and we know how Canadians feel about THAT dude.
As long as Iggy’s not telling the public the truth of his party’s part in the coalition and whether he’d support it or not, simply makes him appear sinister and not trustworthy. Still playing games.
Bisson and other libs are saying, we have to see the books to get the real figures. Maybe JF should make a deal, you show us how you cooked the books re EI, adscam, the gun registry and those trust funds. You tell us what plans you had for income trusts if elected. When you return all the stolen money, made quebec liberals who benefitted from said funds come fwd, maybe, just maybe we will show you the books.
I think the only reason they want to see the books is to learn how responsible accounting is done.
As for a bailout for the big 3 and what would happen if they go under, are there not millions of vehicles on the road that will need parts, repairs, tires etc. Why would those companies go under.
Perhaps many of those union workers should have paid attention to how their grandparents/greatgrandparents learned to save for possible ruin after coming thru the depression. And they did it without unions, ei, old age pension or child tax credits.
There are some canadians that need financial help, and this takes many forms.
However, those union workers who have thought nothing of closing factories, closing schools, manufacturing plants, ports, transportation, railroads, and so many other stoppages, by going on strike for weeks or months, destroying property, riots, and affecting other areas of the economy are not among those needing help. They are just upset that these closures are not their decision.
Think how upset unions were when the right to strike might be taken away from them.
Are those bus drivers concerned about people getting to work in this fridgid weather, NO. How about the postal union on strike now, do they care about letters to/from Santa getting thru, NO.
Why aren’t the union management willing to use their strike funds to help laid off workers.
Abolish unions, they are no longer needed or wanted.
Goodale and Jennings are a pair of tongues that would be hard to stop wagging. They must have received orders from control freak Iggy to button up, either that or they’re no too happy.
Goodale may be afraid he’ll be questioned as to whether he thinks using EI funds during his tenure as Finance Minister was a big part of their surplus?
It appears Iggy is another Liberal leader who can’t decide on anything, even what he stands for so he’s leaving it to us to define him. Mr. Dithers the second is a start. He seems to still be stuck in his professorial mode, all musings and no definite answers.
He is off to a perfect start for the Mr. Dithers label
making ads for the Conservatives straight from the horse’s mouth with, “coalition if necessary but not necessarily a coalition”. What kind of gobbledygook is that?
Goodale may be afraid he’ll be questioned as to whether he thinks using EI funds during his tenure as Finance Minister was a big part of their surplus?
Liz this E.I issue should be discussed in the blogs : it is a must.
—
They must have received orders from control freak Iggy to button up, either that or they’re no too happy
Liz where did I hear ‘control freak’ before:
Ignatieff is an idiot who wants to enter a party which is loaded with corruption and disaster.
Ignatieff strikes me as an arrogant man even the MSM is afraid of him. Yet they blame PM
O.T. but I just received a beautiful Christmas card, wishing our family a Merry Christms, from my MP. I am not offended by this. And, I don’t care how he got our name or address.
Joanne have you seen this James blog Note photo between space can’t be recopied you have to go there yourself to see it.
ONWARD JAMES
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
Layton, Dion, Duceppe & their Guru
Photo here
The Dalai Lama also suggests they change their clothes and dress like him. Absurd?
Mary T,
I think that is rather nice despite the stripes.(did it say “Merry Christmas”? ha)
I received a LETTER in the mail from our Premier, Ed Stelmach, re my letter to him, fearful of the consequences of a coalition.
I was impressed with that as well. Cheers!
Joanne – this is a great discussion, but I’m wondering whether in fact you noticed that yesterday at 3:43pm I wrote about all of this as it was taking place? Everyone was so wrapped up in the media bias thing that you didn’t even see that there was something positive to talk about yesterday.
As a matter of choice, and because I’m a freelance writer myself, my writing is bias because it’s always my opinion. The paper that hired me knows that, BUT, they also have writers writing from another angel.
I think as blog participants there’s all kinds of benefit to be derived from knowing who are your media friendlies who DO give you balanced stuff, and who aren’t.
Coming here for the first time, not knowing what party you supported, I’d think that your side had lost the election. It’s a good place to vent though, but the media bias issue has taken on a life of it’s own it’s coloring other issues. I’ll be taking a Christmas break.
Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and get a bit of down time from the computer….you’ll need it come the last week of January.
Card says, With warmest wishes for a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Personally signed by Rick. That is why I mentioned it, Merry Christmas to all.
One of these days I will have to go shopping, g/kids expect it.
Mary T…yes they do but a terrific year to teach our little ones, restraint, sharing and all of that jazz.
With every challenge there seems to always be a silver lining… I see this economic downturn as a great time to value what is most important. Family, friends and….PMSH! LOL
Sol – sometimes it does feel like we lost the election because according to the coalition and most of the media – 62% did not vote for Harper.
I agree, Alberta Girl. I personally feel that we are still campaigning.
A different set of rules when it means saving or not saving our country. A bad dream…but it was good news yesterday.
I am so guarded to accept it as permanent. I think their lies the problem.
Here’s some info to digest regarding US auto worker that came across my desk. Some random thoughts that sprung to mind after reviewing:
-How much is a retiree getting paid a year. There are 40,000+ vs current work force of 27,000.
-What the hell did managers/execs business plan consist of?
-Why should we be giving them money
-Severe, severe concessions by union and executives
TAKE A DEEP BREATHE!
According to Forbes, labour cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly US auto workers
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in US): $48.00 ($96,000)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006
was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits)
Bottom line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more
compensation than the average university professor with a Ph. D., and 52.6% more
than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
I think the reason why Ford isn’t in as much trouble is because they made a huge write down last year (anyone remember that) of $38 billion, a $6.50 a share hit that seemingly came out of nowhere.
These guys ran their business exactly like the bankers in the US, hiding things from their balance sheets while cashing in on huge, huge bonuses. The best part is the execs are protected by limited liability laws.
You wonder why they are in so much trouble….one word greed.
Joanne – I just want to wish you and your family a very MERRY CHRISTMAS and say how much I (and I know I speak for most of your fans) we appreciate all that you have done – in fact all that all the bloggers do to give us a voice.
Have a great rest; drink lots of eggnog – or something stronger if you like! and hopefully we can make it through the holidays without one of the cabal making some move that pulls us away from the turkey dinner.
And Merry Xmas to everyone else too!
Now what can I do about the withdrawal I am going to go through…..??
Sorry Shane, but those figures are fluff.
I’m a Chrysler worker. Based on a 40 hour week I would have a salary of roughly $66,000. Still a very good salary. To arrive at the hourly figures you quote they take the number of retirees and add their pensions onto current workers. Obviously Toyota and Honda have no retirees as they just started building here in the last 8 years or so.
In fact, when you add in bonuses to Honda and Toyota workers they make a higher hourly wage than Big 3 workers. And Joanne will tell you I am on record as being against a bailout and in favor of union concessions.
What most people also don’t know is the import plants in Canada and the U.S. did in fact receive government aid in different forms. Discount on utiliies, land given for free and in some cases the plant was paid for by government. Waiving of property taxes for a number of years. Workers training paid for by the government rather than the auto companies.
Now what I would like to see, is add the retirees cost to government workers salaries and see what they make using that formula.
And by the way, the Big 3 plants produce more cars daily with fewer workers, something Forbes and the others never mention.
paulstuff…just posted this at SDA…perhaps you can answer my question.
I had a lovely road trip today. Passed several car lots, overstocked with vehicles.
I’m not an economist and my only business experience was with a ‘ma and pop’ operation belonging to some relatives, so what do I know?
Could some of you experienced people explain to me why a great “inventory reduction sale” is not happenning at these dealers. We estimated approximately $4 million worth of vehicles on just 2 lots. Wouldn’t that get the Big 3 some cash?
We have been waiting to see some drops in pricing…and it isn’t happenning.
Why not?
And Joanne..Merry Christmas to you and your family!We will miss you…relax, rest, relish the festivities…focus on the family and forget about politics, ok?
(Yeah…like I’ll take my own advice,eh?)…lol…
God Bless you…enjoy His blessings!
AG …we will survive!
Merry Christmas to all my friends here at Joanne’s.
Jesus is the Reason for the Season
Yes, we will survive but it will be hard.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
I just get thinking that things are going good in Ottawa when I get a call tonight from the Conservative Party asking for donations because Mr. Iggy might be bringing down the Government at the end of January. I was told that we have to get ready for an election. That would sure be better than the coalition.
That is an excellant question bluetech, and I honestly have no answer for it. There are some great deals out there with rebates and such, but they could be doing much more.
The cars our plant produces, the 300, Charger, and Challenger, are some of the highest profit-margin cars Chrysler has ever produced. In the case of the Challenger, it is selling quite well and just recently came on the market, so no need for discounts.
However, the 300 and Charger are in about their 5th year of production, and the company still offers little in the way of discounts on these cars despite the huge profit margin. As well, most vehicles have a tooling cost of roughly $2000 each during the expected production run, usually 5-6 years. The company has basically recovered their tooling costs already, and as well the 300 sold far more than predicted by the company in the first few years. Once the tooling cost has been recovered, that cost is extra profit on each vehicle.
Merry Christmas Joanne and everyone here. I hope everyone has a blessed Christmas.
January should bring interesting times. In the meantime we should all be praying for PMSH and everyone serving in the CPC government. Pray that they all have a good rest and come back in the New Year energized and ready to roll.
We should all have a good rest and enjoy the season. Come back,and see where we go from there.
Merry Christmas again and God Bless!
Here’s wishing all here a Merry Christmas.
Joanne, you may have to take a wee bit of time to post on the Senate appointments any day now.
The Liberals and Dippers are railing on about the PM appointing so many at once and how it’s illegal because the House is prorogued, yadda, yadda.
With Liberals everything’s illegal or undemocratic unless they do it.
By letting the seats stay vacant so long at least he’s bringing home the fact he tried to change things, no co-operation from anywhere so he has to fill those seats.
We do know, if the coalition of silly beggars got power they’d fill them quickly, even with Count Iggy as an appointed PM who’s really a stranger in our midst.
The crassness and colossal gall of a guy like Ignatieff knows no bounds. After spending most of his life away, he sashays back with ambitions to become
PM of the country he didn’t care to live and work in.
Merry Christmas to all and thanks for the great posts and comments during the year. Looking forward to January. God Bless Everyone.
God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen … and Ladies, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01uoLNxSLrY
Joanne,
This is the nicest time of the year. I hope that you and your family take some time, enjoy the season and….do not worry about global warming because it is -35 in Calgary! lol
Merry, Christmas to you and your family!
….and to frmgrl, gabby, sol, wilson, Sandy, Alberta Girl, Mary T,WCT,LizJ,paulsstuff,ruth,bluetech,shane n’the rack,Raphael, Phantom,Jen, CC,CR,Karol,TT,CR Stephen,Soccermom,Marie, PMSH,…..oh my gosh, if I forgot anyone, please forgive me and Merry Christmas!
paulsstuff has many great points. How much has Ottawa and Ontario given to Honda and Toyota to set up shop? It goes both ways. It was disgusting to listen some of the southern US senators justify their votes against an American “bailout” when they were front and center in giving massive amounts of money to Mercedes-Benz and Nissan etc. to set up shop in their states.
bluetech, there is a car dealer here in Montreal that is throwing in a free Dodge Caliber if you buy a Ram pick up, so at least, one dealer is trying to move the inventory out the door.
PM’s pessimistic talk makes bad situation worse, critics say
From Wednesday’s Grope and Flail
December 16, 2008 at 10:46 PM EST
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081216.wdepression1217/BNStory/politics/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
Prime Minister Stephen Harper was accused yesterday of exacerbating the economic downturn by spreading pessimism when he should be taking a leadership role by disbursing hope.
Talking to a Liberal is like wiping your nose on a wagon wheel.
I’m signing in here via a different browser as an experiment since Explorer is having security issues, so this may look a bit different.
Thanks for all the Christmas wishes! I do plan to post important issues, but I won’t have the time to do a thorough analysis. I’ll leave that to you guys.
re: JLK AB (2:20am): PM accused of being TOO pessimistic about the economy.
Well folks, I laughed so hard when we read that GlobeandFlail article, that I almost spilled my coffee. how do you spell *LOL*
Why you ask? I had just finished reading the Editorial Comment in the Waterloo Region Record, where Jim Flaherty was lambasted for being too … get ready … optimistic about the economy, just a few short weeks ago.
Just another example of how the Conservatives are damned in MSM no matter what they do, what they say, etc. Below is the link so you can have a morning laugh too.
http://news.therecord.com/Opinions/article/459911
“Prime Minister Stephen Harper was accused yesterday of exacerbating the economic downturn by spreading pessimism when he should be taking a leadership role by disbursing hope.”
This statement could have been written one year ago – when Harper did his 2007 year end interviews he predicted the slow down (although I don’t think anyone predicted this) and was accused of – wait for it – too pessimistic!!!
I wonder if these idiots ever think back to what they said one short hour ago; let alone a week, or a month or a year ago.
Of course; the media have all of this in their vaults, but it doesn’t serve their purpose to get it out to prove that Harper is actually the only one who was on top of this BEFORE it started.
Idiots – all of them.
Mercedes got in excess of $2.5 billion just to set up a plant in Alabama, with the state also buying 2500 Mercedes vehicles as part of the lure to land the plant.
That also brings up another point I overlooked. When Daimler aquired Chrysler/Jeep they raided the bank account of Chrysler and used the billions on R/D for Mercedes, which was struggling at the time. The top 18 executives also took millions in bonuses. The same thing again occurred when the 300C hit the market. We basically worked 7 days a week, and a third shift was added for 3 years to keep up with demand. Where did all those billions go in profit?
Also not reported is Chrysley has 3 electric vehicles that will go on sale in the next few years, A mini-van, Cherokee, and Journey crossover, as well as a small two-seater car that is fully electric. Also, Chrysler has a car in the works to begin production withinthe next two years. It’s called the Dodge Hornet, will be manufactured by Nissan in exchange for Chrysler designing and building a pickup truck for them. It also competes with all the imports in terms of fuel consumption.
Ford and GM also have some great things coming out in the next year or two. What’s really hurting ALL the car manufacturers right now is the fact that the market is selling several million less vehicles than in past years. When plants temporarily close down, they still have fixed costs to pay. Utilities, taxes, etc., as well as paying staff to provide customer service even though their main source of profit is on hold.
[...] I mentioned in my previous post, I’m planning to focus on Christmas preparations now, but that doesn’t preclude [...]