This morning we have two sets of polls results to ponder, which appear to be contradictory at first glance.
A Toronto Star/Angus Reid survey declares Ignatieff, Harper virtually tied in poll:
Newly appointed Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is in a virtual tie with Prime Minister Stephen Harper as the person Canadians think would be the best to lead the country, a new poll exclusive to the Star reveals.
Ignatieff tops the list of party leaders Canadians would prefer as prime minister, with 28 per cent of respondents naming him the best head of government, according to the Toronto Star/Angus Reid survey.
Harper came in at 27 per cent – a virtual tie because it’s within the margin of error, but the first time the Conservative leader has polled below 30 per cent in two years…
However, the National Post just published the latest Ipsos Reid results stating that 65% back co-operation, and only 27% feel that Iggy should "stick with the Liberal-NDP coalition."
The Post also points out that Stephen Harper has little to fear with the crowning of Count Igula as LPC leader:
…The poll also said the Conservative party would garner 45% of the vote and score a majority victory if an election were held today.
"All of a sudden, Stephen Harper’s hand has got a lot stronger," Darrell Bricker, president of Ipsos Reid, said yesterday. "There is no reason for him to fear an election."
The survey results said the Liberals have not improved their electoral prospects — so far– by picking Mr. Ignatieff this week to replace the unpopular Stephane Dion. Those surveyed favoured the Conservatives over the Liberals by 45% to 26% when no leaders’ names were mentioned. The 19-point gap was repeated when the question was rephrased to name Mr. Ignatieff. The New Democrats trailed at 12% and the Green party came in at 7%. The Bloc scored 39% in Quebec, and 10% nationally.
Mr. Bricker said he is surprised the Liberals didn’t get a bump from Mr. Ignatieff’s selection, and that the results don’t bode well for the future of the proposed coalition.
"The Liberals have played their one big card, which was changing their leader," Mr. Bricker said. "At the end of the day, it turned out to not be about who their leader really was. Really, it continues to be the whole concept of the coalition that bothers Canadians."
(Note: Comments are worth checking out at the on-line version.)
So how does one reconcile the differences other than to attribute the results to the possibility of biased polling and leading questions?
Here is my theory. Canadians hate the idea of a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition – especially when it is forced on us rather than through a proper election.
When the prospect of a coalition is removed from the equation, then I think the majority might possibly see Ignatieff and Harper as fairly well matched in terms of intelligence, communication skills and capability.
If my theory is correct, then Ignatieff would be wise to disassociate himself from the coalition post-haste, because otherwise he and his party will wear this disastrous ploy in the next election.
Trust me. Canadians will not forget. This ridiculous games-playing has slowed down the government’s ability to address our economic concerns. People are losing jobs and all these clowns care about is power. Canadians have lost confidence in the opposition parties – not in the Harper Government!
The sleeping giant has been awakened and it is angry!
Bring on the election.
Update: More at Canadian Sentinel and SDA. Steve at Far and Wide has a somewhat different view of the situation. He seems to think Iggy is smart to keep the coalition in his back pocket.
The Star has the Ipsos poll up now – HARPER TORIES KEEP BIG LEAD IN POLL. (H/T Cantuc)
* * * *
I’m going to try to catch up on email and readers’ comments for the rest of the weekend. Many of you have addressed questions and comments to me directly, and I would like to take the time to answer them.
With the flurry of activity over the past week or so, the number of comments has been almost too excessive to handle, but I’m not complaining. Please accept my gratitude for your participation in the discussion and my apologies for taking so long to get back to you.
Your feedback and involvement is really why I do this. Thanks.
* * * *
Sunday Update: Congrats to SDA – Best Conservative Blog.
And thanks to everyone who voted for Blue Like You. It certainly was an honour to be included in the top five of all the blogging heavyweights in the Conservative blogosphere.
Count Iggula of Arrogance is in for a few surprises in the reality of politics. He’s very fortunate to have a fawning media on his side to cover his gaffes. He said he intended to “smell the barns”, a comment the media has ignored but we don’t have to! We can assume that means he’s going to rub shoulders with Canadians who he considers to be Rubes outside the confines of his Toronto tent.
His Highness has already committed to the coalition of kooks, and is still threatening to use it to get his way or else, the people’s choice is of no concern, it’s only the Liberal choice that matters.
This nutty prof thinks he can be crowned king of the Liberals and king of a coup to overthrow the government of a country he had little time for most of his life. The Rubes will give him a lesson he needs to learn, they know crap when they see and smell it.
I advise him to put on the overalls and rubber boots for the wade in.
I’d like to see a poll where they don’t call a thousand people from the Toronto area.
How about a western Canada poll or even Atlantic Canada or rural Canada?
Canadians are indeed angry about the coalition but mostly Canadians are looking for solid leadership to take us where we want to go and where we want to go is not where Ignatieff wants to go.
Immigration for one.
Iggy has repeatedly accused Harper of racism for wanting to focus on bringing immigrants with specific training into Canada rather than the welfare cases we’ve been getting.
He wants to bring home Khadr to be tried within the Canadian justice system where he’d undoubtedly be found guilty and then released immediately.
He didn’t think much of the GST cuts.
He supported Stephane Dion.
I could go on and on but I want to have a nice breakfast before I start the day.
He has to redefine the Liberal Party if he wants the support of Canadians.
NeilD
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081213.NOTEBOOK13/TPStory/National
The above article is by the fawning Jane Taber – she of the Harper is a controlling bully who won’t let his ministers speak.
The she writes this in her first paragraph
“New Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff told his troops there will be no freelancing; the Liberal Party will now speak with one voice and it will be his, according to an insider.”
I guess it just depends who is doing the controlling!
“So how does one reconcile the differences other than to attribute the results to the possibility of biased polling and leading questions.”
I think you’ve answered your own question Joanne. Give the source is the Star, my first impression was wondering what the poll questions were because as we all know the Star has a way of the tail wagging the dog on thing like this.
There is no way in hell that I believe that Harper’s tied with Ignatieff. Too many grassroot liberals want nothing to do with Iggy based on his coronation.
I think the Star is writing fantasy to help it’s own choice and prodigal son.
By the way – Jane Tabers email is
jtaber@globeandmail.com
Maybe a few emails pointing out her hypocrisy would be appropriate.
Maybe the questions went like this
How would you rate the leadership of Stephen Harper
Given that you Hate Stephen Harper would you rate new Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff as a better leader than Stephen Harper?
Thank you for participating in our Libe..er poll
Michael Ignatieff is a fool to walk into a party loaded with corruption scams thievery you name it and instead of trashing them for what they have done throughout the years he embraces them corruption and all.
When canadians wake up to find out what the liberals have done and now the EI-scam upon the many scams, Ignatieff and party will be thrown out.
Ignatieff is not the liberals saviour -THE CORRUPT LEFTWING MSM ARE.
I asked this yesterday. Does anyone know what’s up?
Before the election the business papers like he G&M were endorsing SH for PM. Now its endless character assassinations. I don’t think this is about some elitist writters at papers dissing. Is there a push by Canada’s corporate elite to have PMSH replaced by Count Iggy. The corprate media are the tools for shaping voter opinion. Power Corp was backing Rae. So who is backing Iggy? Who is pulling the strings?
I recall about 10 days ago the first poll came out on the question of who should govern, Conservatives or the newly formed Coalition. The results were ‘fairly evenly split’ is my recollection. The Polster: Angus Reid
Within a day Ipsos Reid indicated Canadians were overwhelmingly (70%+) against the Coalition seizing power as planned. Shortly thereafter ‘Compas Research’ results came out and were even more damning of the Coalition … 80% range?
After a third major Polster (maybe Nanos? I can’t remember exactly) posted similar stats, I distinctly remember reading, and hearing on radio, that ALL FOUR Polls were in agreement. Huh? Yes, Angus Reid had changed there position, or re-polled?
Look, I’m not questioning the integrity of any of these ‘non-partisan’ Polling companies, but I found the ‘about-face’ by Angus Reid very interesting.
Does anyone else recall something similar? Wish I had links … I’m sure they’re buried somewhere among the hundreds (or thousands) of comments on Joanne’s Blog threads over the last two weeks. If anyone comes up with anything please post.
When Iggy comes west to the church basements, town halls etc, we should all attend, wearing coveralls, boots, red bandanas around our neck and chewing on a piece of straw.
What did he mean he smelled the barns.
And at NNW there is a story re Iggy will speak with one voice for the liberals. No more freelancing. Hey, when PMSH does that what do they call him. Just think, two controllers on the scene. I imagine Goodale will welcome being away from the media till the EI fraud dies down (it wont).
Will the media call Iggy controlling, afraid to let his caucus speak, and all that stuff they say about PMSH. From now on when we hear things about PMSH just substitute the name Iggy.
Joanne,
Best part of latest developments is the fact that Kinsella was put in charge of creating Count Igula’s public persona.
As dumb as Kinsella is he feeds his ideas and talking points to members of the media just so they can incorporate them into their articles. In order to show his boss how splendind is the job that he does Kinsella publishes his own talking points on his blog this time in form of quotes from published articles including names of loyal journalists. You could call it Count Igula’s brownie points score board.
Effective image making and effective spin has to be ground in reality; real political skils and real political events staged (managed) by Count Igula or by his political friends and in the worst case scenario political events staged by his Conservative opponents.
Kinsella’s fault is in overdoing and rushing things; claiming imaginary skills and strenghts of Cout Igula’s character and trying to use totally insignificant events to unleash his verbosity totally unrelated to events that he tries to connect them to.
Kinsella sounds very phoney so the quotes he presents also sound phoney and as a result of it Count Igula come out looking grotesque and phoney like a proverbial three dollars bill.
Please take a look for yourself.
http://www.warrenkinsella.com/comments.php?y=08&m=12&entry=entry081212-094327
——————————————-
MINI-MORNING MICHAEL
Friday, December 12, 2008, 09:43 AM
• Michael Den Tandt, Ottawa Sun: “IGGY CHANGES GAME…Michael Ignatieff changes the game. He projects intelligence, confidence and force. At his best, Harper does too. But Harper these days is not at his best. In his CBC interview the other night, Harper looked like a man in the throes of a massive migraine. Ignatieff on Wednesday looked and sounded like a prime minister.”
• Montreal Gazette: “IGNATIEFF’S FIRST STEPS ARE MEASURED AND ASSURED…new Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff showed [sure] footing. He struck the right balance between showing openness toward Prime Minister Stephen Harper and making it clear that the Conservatives will have to produce a budget that meets the Liberals’ expectations, if not those of the other parties.”
• Susan Riley, Ottawa Citizen: “In his first audience with the media this week as Liberal party leader, Michael Ignatieff all but challenged Prime Minister Stephen Harper to a duel at dawn. He came across very alpha male — tough, terse, take no prisoners. “He knows where to find me,” Ignatieff sneered, when asked if he will consult with the prime minister on the upcoming budget….Ignatieff is tough and aggressive. Harper may finally be getting a fair fight, which is all to the good…”
— Comments —
Comments Closed
————————————–
YOUR MORNING MICHAEL
Thursday, December 11, 2008, 09:18 AM
• Stephen Maher, Chronicle Herald: “FINALLY, A REAL CONTENDER…watching Michael Ignatieff’s first news conference as Liberal leader may have been a disquieting experience for Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Since 2006, Mr. Harper has faced a chief rival who lacked the skills to successfully lead a political party and who never had the support of his MPs. As of today, Mr. Harper faces a skilful opponent whose caucus appears to be enthusiastically behind him. Mr. Harper faces a unified Liberal party with a competent leader now.”
• Kathleen Harris, Sun Media: “HARPER WILL HAVE HIS HANDS FULL WITH NEW GRIT LEADER…Stephen Harper could be facing the most formidable political foe of his life in Michael Ignatieff. Prof. David Taras of the University of Calgary said Harper has always gone toe-to-toe with weak opponents in leadership races and election battles. But the prime minister is poised to face off with a man of great intellect, international acumen and sharp political savvy.”
• Bruce Campion-Smith, Toronto Star: “IGNATIEFF SHOWS BACKBONE…LEADER SHOWS BACKBONE…Ignatieff also made plain there’s a new dynamic in play atop the Liberal party – a firm leader who is perhaps Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s match in the heated debates to come…Ignatieff left no doubt about the signal he’s sending Harper in the run-up to the Jan. 27 budget and a key vote that could see the Conservative government defeated. Staring down from the podium with a hawk-like glare, Ignatieff wasted no time putting the boots to Harper over the Conservatives’ widely panned fall economic statement and the Prime Minister’s decision to prorogue Parliament rather than face defeat at the hands of a united opposition.”
• The Canadian Press: “…it became jarringly obvious that the rookie Liberal leader was feeling confident in the new role. Confident enough to volunteer that kind of information when asked how he planned to recapture votes in rural Canada. Confident enough to actively seek out opportunities to demonstrate the quality of his French…”
• John Ivison, National Post: “…the Liberal leader has been in frontline politics for three years now and has learned the language appropriate for a political leader…”
• Tom Brodbeck, Winnipeg Sun: “Ignatieff is far more nimble than Harper. And he’s come a long way as a politician since his awkward entrance into public life three years ago.I would imagine Harper is quite worried about the prospect of going toe-to-toe with Ignatieff.”
• Lawrence Martiin, Globe and Mail: “…competence, authority and direction. Michael Ignatieff, who entered politics at age 58 and has been in the game just three years, served notice to Stephen Harper that the pushover period of Liberal history is over…As he demonstrated at his press conference yesterday, Mr. Ignatieff has a commanding presence, not a willowy one. He is trenchantly articulate in both languages, not neither. He has a powerful organization spearheaded by Ian Davey, as opposed to the disorder seen under Mr. Dion. Politics is about messaging and this is where, compared to both Paul Martin and Mr. Dion, Mr. Ignatieff could make the big difference. He is a lifelong communicator, a writer of both fiction and non-fiction books, a seasoned television commentator, a wordsmith who – I know this sounds strange in Canadian politics – is capable of making an eloquent speech.”
— Comments —
Comments Closed
While we’re on the topic of the Star, check out their lead editorial today: http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/553212
Seriously, they’re still harping on the whole AGW issue. Someone should tell the Star, “How’s it going back there in 2005?”
It’s getting ripped into in the comments… good stuff.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/political_crisis_splits_views_in_canada/
Here is one of the polls taken Dec 3.
Here are the questions on a Dec 4 poll
A major crisis with dire negative consequences for Canada and its economy
47%
A form of renewal that will remove an insensitive and incompetent government from power
38%
Not sure
15%
Source: Angus Reid Strategies
Methodology: Online interviews with 1,000 Canadian adults, conducted on Dec. 2 and Dec. 3, 2008. Margin of error is 3.1 per cent.
Gee – how to give Canadians a real choice on a poll
Let’s see dire economic crisis vs. insensitive and incompetent government.
Yikes – what a choice!!
I have had 2 online Angus Polls since the GG gave the MPs an extra week off. Several questions re the coalition, leader and who would you vote for.
We have to make sure the word gets out that the HofC was going on Christmas break Dec 12, and I think that date is set with all party agreement. I am tired of all the idiots saying PMSH shut the doors for 7 weeks. He didn’t. If there had been co-operation with all parties, the HoC would have closed yesterday as scheduled.
Wonder how many lib/dipper MPs will face any of their voters, or will they go into hiding.
I want Goodale to explain the EI fraud as he was Finance Minister, and what part did Layton have in it. Remember him bragging he wrote the budget.
So Mary – how do you get onto the online polls? Do you have to sign up?
Instead of cleaning house and getting rid of the rift raft from the old days Mr Corny (Iggy) has brought back quit of few major players that were involved in Adscam. The Liberals seem to be going backwards then forwards. Or do the figure if they cannot get donations legally, they must try it the old way and brought in the experts in that field.
A beggar can ask for his money back which the liberals stole from him and the corrupt MSM will do everything they can to ruin him-just like they are doing to us canada and of course the prime minister who is giving us back our money.
Corrupt MSM sole purpose is to promote a party that has no values lost all respect for their country and canadians, to be used by them for the MSM own purpose of survival.
These people(MSM) HATE and I mean HATE to see you happy; For their own survival, they will feed and manipulate you with constant gloom and doom news hoping that you will read their newspaper or listen to them on radio or television everyday to get some good news.
Like a lottery ticket you may loose ten times but you continue to buy hoping to win the millions.
In the United States there are liberals and conservative MSM both in television and newspapers. When one media wants to cover up from the public the other media uncovers to reveal to the public.
In canada unfortunately, we don’t have that special media to uncover to reveal to canadians what was purposely manipulated by the other media.
Poor Iggy, didn’t get the bumpd Dion got when he was first ‘elected’ Lib leader:
EXACTLY 2 years ago
December 08, 2006
According to the poll of 1,004 adult Canadians, conducted Dec. 5-7, if an election was held tomorrow:
• 38 per cent of decided voters would cast their ballots for the Liberals, up by seven percentage points since the last Ipsos Reid poll in November;
• 32 per cent would vote for the Conservatives, a drop of five percentage points;
• 13 per cent would support the NDP under Jack Layton, down by two percentage points;
• 11 per cent would vote for the Bloc Quebecois under Gilles Duceppe, unchanged from the previous poll.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=95c9d866-89ac-46fa-83ba-d1bc0fab6195&k=18732
Actually if I remember right, Dion scored higher in polling directly after becoming Lib leader than Iggy is now.
And Iggy has some sleletons in his closet that will come out at the appropriate time.
Damn, Wilson beat me to it.
The poll you are referring to Alberta Girl could be what they call a “push poll”
Main Entry: push poll
Part of Speech: n
Definition: an opinion poll done with loaded questions or offering negative information to sway the opinions of those polled
Usage: push-polling n
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/push+poll&
Webster’s New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.7)
Copyright © 2003-2008 Dictionary.com, LLC
Another good reference on push polls: http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2006/08/push_polls.html
Thanks Frmgrl – it just proves the point that while the libs are celebrating the latest Angus Reid/Tor Star poll as being evidence of their “star” rising in the east – when you have a choice between Iggy and a nasty, incompetent, neocon, right wing, bush-loving, hitler-like, parliament door shutting Stephen Harper, it might be wise to take the results with a grain of salt.
But the Libs have to hang onto something, right?
Polls are a mirror of each other 2006 vs. 2008
(both polls likely have removed the coalition factor)
2008 Toronto Star poll:
Lib 31
Cons 37
In Ontario, the Cons 42
yah know the story in the West, no numbers
vs.
2006
Libs 38
Cons 32
You have a long way to go Iggy…..
Archie @ 1040 am. My thoughts exactly. Being a Westerner, I sat up and took notice of Jean Chretien, Paul Martin etc involvement in advising the Coalition. Jean Chretien and Paul Martin authored the N.E.P. years; isn’t that a bit like putting the fox in charge of the hen house? Then we have Ignatieff apologizing to Western Canadians for the sins of past Liberal Gov’ts. Kind of hard to swallow when the people who wreaked financial havoc on Western Canada are now providing guidance/touchpoints in how to wreak havoc with a Coalition?
AG, I signed up by clicking on Angus Reid from guess who, Jason C. But, if you go to
http://www.angusreidforum.com and click on join now it will get you numerous surverys. One thing about them is you can’t refuse to answer a question so sometimes you have to be careful. Lots of questions re brands, ect but then you get political questions, asked several times in different ways.
And, once a month you get their monthly newsletter giving the results of the survey.
Always have, did you vote in the last election, will you vote in next election and of course what party did/will you vote for. I always answer conservative to every political question. Takes a few minutes to get thru them.
You will see how they can be manipulated.
Try it, it is fun.
Why didn’t we cry for a bailout when Albertans were going broke, declaring bankruptcy, losing jobs ete during the NEP. Not enough unions here I guess. I equate what Ont is going thru with the auto industry as their NEP.
Message to Iggy, sorry we will not forget or forgive liberal past sins to the west.
Saying you have smelled the barns and then asking for forgiveness tells me you think we are all redneck rubes and think we need your helping hands. (to rob us again) No thanks.
Alberta Girl Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 10:34 am
So Mary – how do you get onto the online polls? Do you have to sign up?
Alberta Girl it aint so easy.
If you get on their polling review group, they will not ask you questions or ask you to take place in polls which may go against the ideology of the group paying for the poll.
For instance, if you indicate a pro-life inclination, you will never be asked to take place in a poll contracted by a feminist group. etc.
Harper bad, count Igore good this sounds like the trash talking before a wrestling match where everyone knows who is going to win. Close to 80% of Canadians find the coalition just a slimy power grab. All the howling by the CBC suckups won’t change that. Harper is controlling, Count Igore still wearing his parachute is not having any “freelancing” Jane Taber wets pants in other news. Vote non confidance LibNDPBloc this Canadian would love to have an election with the funding for parties on the table.
Cheers Bubba
If Iggy wants seats in the west he should pay attention to that scene in Pretty Woman, where Gere is telling that salesman to suck it up, big time to her, not him.
The separtists remind me of the other scence where, with all her purchases, she thumbs her nose at the clerks who refused her. They thumb their noses at the ROC.
”Then we have Ignatieff apologizing to Western Canadians for the sins of past Liberal Gov’ts”
and that will be Iggy’s story…not me, the other guys did it. I wasn’t part of those dastardly deeds.
Right.
signed the coalition agreement
refuses to denounce the coalition
repeatedly refers to Dippers and Bloc as ‘partners’
campaigned for lib leader on a carbon tax
campaigned for lib leader on raising the GST
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=ed009175-7814-44f0-aa99-327a4209a259
“I told caucus I will vote non-confidence in this government. I am prepared to enter into a coalition government if that is what the Governor General asks me to do,”
Ipsos Reid was the only polling firm to get the election results bang on..
Are these poles like the Olivia Chow POLE? How can anyone support Ignatieff? Canadians don’t even know the guy.
“So who is backing Iggy? Who is pulling the strings?”
That’s the question isn’t it? Where’s the lifeline of cash coming from? All fair questions….I wonder if there’s a kick-ass journalist in Canada prepared to ask this of him?
Re: Kinsella’s behind building Iggy’s image. If he’s fawning over Iggy the same way he fawned over Obama no wonder it’s over the top. He writes good books, but he loses his edge on his blog. I guess Ezra’s not too happy with him these days either. I don’t know alot about Adscam because I was still in school and not into politics at all, but I was surprised to read on Ezra’s blog alleged involvement of the Prince of Darkness.
I just visited his blog to see what he’s got to say and I have to tell you “Your Morning Michael” reminds me of an ad for Geritol or Laxative. One shot in the morning will do it! I hear the diet of puffins can be quite binding.
Once Count Igor signed the coalition paper, he signed away any chance of him gaining any support in the west. Then he brings in the Liberal old boys club, remember them, the one’s with the brown paper bags. Some of these boys (especially in Quebec) never stop Igor’s leadership drive and stab Dion in the back every chance they could and they want us to trust Igor.
The Star article is an ‘inverted’ pyramid article. The general consensus when writing is to put the important info at the beginning and bury what you don’t want at the end.
The Star also points out that the CPC are ahead of the Libs 42-36 in Ontario and 37-31 overall. Iggy has not turned the ship around. Unfortunately this info comes at the end of the article. All Star articles should be read from bottom to top.
This should be worrisome for the Libs as the tendency is to get a bump from a leader change. Cheers.
Iggy to liberals – ” I want all of you retaaahds to shut the hell up “.
Does this mean we don’t have to put up with them popping up on every episode of duffy , neuman and question period ? I could almost thank him . Is Goodale going to call him a bully 7,000 times ?
You know, I’ve been wondering where they’re hiding Ralph. For his safety, I hope it’s a padded room. All that spazzing out can be quite dangerous.
re: JDot (11:51am) – Good for Ipsos Reid … and that is why I truly believe they are the most credible of them all. Compas Research a close 2nd.
The bottom line for me is: the vast majority of Canadians believe in fairness. We hate ‘queue jumpers’ when we’ve lined up in the cold for a good seat at a concert, or for a sale.
Well folks, the Liberal-NDP-Bloc MPs supporting the Coalition are definitely ‘queue jumpers‘ and that is how Canadians will remember them, come next election, whether that be 6 months or two years from now.
They have tried the short cut to power rather than ‘waiting in line’ for Canadian voters to cast their ballot; and Iggy will wear this too … but, maybe not to the extent as Bob Rae, Jack Layton, Justin Trudeau, and other VERY VOCAL Coalition thumpers will.
On the other hand, Iggy signed the papers, and had better ‘man up’ and get off the fence soon, or Canadians will be less likely to forgive; regardless, Canadians will never forget.
”You know, I’ve been wondering where they’re hiding Ralph.”
Ralph and Marlene Jennings, without Iggy’s knowing, negotiated the terms of the coalition agreement with Jack and Gilles.
Ralph and Jennings will follow Dion and Rae into the dunce’s corner.
It appears the Toronto Star changed the headline —http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/553440
Will Iggy back away from this ploy, or will the Liberals present their own budget Jan 27 (what a farce)
“Mr. Ignatieff will not be submitting proposals,” said Jill Fairbrother. “[Ignatieff is] looking to see what Mr. Harper brings to the budget. . . .
http://www.fftimes.com/node/217315
”The Liberal Leader is currently
developing his own alternative stimulus plan
for the Canadian economy with a close circle of advisers that includes Ontario’s Minister of Finance, Dwight Duncan…Frank McKenna, Don Drummond, John McCallum and Scott Brison.
He needs all the advice he can get, given that he has only a few weeks to deliver a clear Liberal plan to navigate the current crisis…”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081212.wPOLignatieff1212/BNStory/politics/home/
Iggy said at his crowning that they wouldn’t offer anything, only listen to the PM. He would wait and see what was in the budget, then use the best ideas for their budget when they form the government in February.
The thing we have to do is somehow get an election instead of the coalition from the GG.
Cantuc, I think that’s a totally different article, but thanks for pointing it out. Link here.
I wonder what page that will disappear to in the print edition tomorrow…
“”The Liberal Leader is currently
developing his own alternative stimulus plan
for the Canadian economy with a close circle of advisers that includes Ontario’s Minister of Finance, Dwight Duncan…Frank McKenna, Don Drummond, John McCallum and Scott Brison.”
Any of you guys from Ontario like to comment on the fact that YOUR Ontario Minister of Finance is apparently spending his time,(and your taxpayer dollars) working with the Leader of the Official Opposition instead of with the Govoernment ? Isn’t he supposed to be working on the economic crisis ? The auto industry ? Not trying to teach someone how economics work ???
“Iggy has repeatedly accused Harper of racism for wanting to focus on bringing immigrants with specific training into Canada rather than the welfare cases we’ve been getting.”
Well, it seems to me that it’s Ignatieff who is actually racist because his accusation in this context suggests that he considers anybody who is not white and English-speaking will be less than qualified and therefore, not worthy. I’d say that he is implying that Harper wanting to bring in immigrants with specific training means that Ignatieff thinks people from countries like Africa, for example, are substandard. I surmise, therefore, that Ignatieff is dismissive of anybody who is not exactly like him – a white male who speaks English.
I am 100% a Harperite but he really does need to learn to be less dismissive of the media. He is a very smart man but he just has not yet learned to do two things: get the media on his side by warming up a bit and he has not learned yet how to take on the slurs and slanders which are leveled at him. He really does have to stand up for himself – taking the high road is good but if the road is too high, one comes across as being a bit too aloof. We all know that the MSM is composed of slavering weasels who are just looking for the next scandal so it is incumbent upon our PM to manipulate the MSM to his advantage.
Karol, I’m not allowing your comment to go through due to the source you linked to. Sorry.
Becoming the ruler of ‘a’ Nation
is just one last item on Iggy’s bucket list,
Being PM here, has nothing to do with Canada,
and everything to do with Him.
I just don’t like his person. I did like Martin and Dion as people. This Iggy leaves me cold.
Maybe we’ll have a period of civility and serenity from the Liberals while they get used to the new king they just crowned. They’ll all be jockeying for positions and won’t want to offend their Worshipful Master.
Have Jennings, Goodale or Fry had much to say since the crowning? Rae gave him a hug after the coronation giving MH Findlay an emotional moment. Wonder if Rae’s supporters felt the same type of emotion?
We can breathlessly await the coalition coup should it become necessary but not necessarily a coalition, or whatever it was their Worshipful Master said in his professorial musing.
Have Jennings, Goodale or Fry had much to say since the crowning? Rae gave him a hug after the coronation giving MH Findlay an emotional moment. Wonder if Rae’s supporters felt the same type of emotion?
Actually, they’re not allowed to talk anymore.
When Harper did that, he was accused of being a tyrant, but when His Iggishness does the same thing, it’s called ‘discipline’.
Funny that.
Yeah, for Liberals it’s party discipline, when Stephen Harper was accused of doing it the MSM and Opposition branded him a control freak. Guess we can enjoy not hearing from the windier slaggers. They’ll have to get used to their comments being vetted by da new Boss Man from his perch on high. They’ll be speaking with one voice controlled by His Highness. Does that make them Puppets or Parrots or both?
I watched in amazement earlier this year when one of the CTV talking heads made an off-hand comment slagging the entire Conservative front bench when he said that they Liberal front bench had written more books than the Conservative front bench had read.
NeilD
The next bright green flash in the Saskatchewan sky won’t be a comet or a meteorite . It will be Goodales head exploding . All that high pressure venom with no release valve gotta blow sooner or later . I hope it stays cold til Ralphys away from any large population centers.
Three more Canadians soldiers reported killed today. This is so tragic.
God Bless our brave soldiers.
Angus Reid is an on-line pollster. I have participated in their polling. I do not agree with their methodology
For example some of the questions ask what party did you vote for in the last election. I believe they can then cherry pick the participants based on their past party choice. Lately (since the 2006 election) I haven’t
been asked to participate (since I am a CPC supporter).
My suggestion is to take any polls from Angus Reid with a lot of salt, push polling is their gravy.
Joanne said.”Here is my theory. Canadians hate the idea of a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition – especially when it is forced on us rather than through a proper election … NOT… I feel that what ever it would take to remove the present PM and have some other form of leader would suite me fine .Now I don’t speak for many if even any other Canadian but somehow there seems to be a consensus that Harper must go .
“”All of a sudden, Stephen Harper’s hand has got a lot stronger,” Darrell Bricker, president of Ipsos Reid, said yesterday. “There is no reason for him to fear an election.”
Well that may be true for the people that actually voted in the last election ,but as someone among a few others that didn’t vote I can say that if a election were called today ,You can bet your sweet bottom that my vote will be heard …
“The Liberals have played their one big card, which was changing their leader,” Mr. Bricker said. “At the end of the day, it turned out to not be about who their leader really was. Really, it continues to be the whole concept of the coalition that bothers Canadians.” My reply to that is as one who has voted NDP for years am ready to vote LIB. Not that I think they are any better than CON. but for the sole reason to get Harper Out .
Joanne said”If my theory is correct, then Ignatieff would be wise to disassociate himself from the coalition post-haste, because otherwise he and his party will wear this disastrous ploy in the next election.
Not for me …He did say a coalition if necessary ,but not a coalition necessarily .
Joanne said” Your feedback and involvement is really why I do this. Thanks.” A new election will not solve the stalemate that is occurring …cooperation.is the only way forward …Its time for all politicians to put aside their partisan ideology and realize that we are all different and only want what is best for all .Aside from that I welcome another election as it is only paper money we are spending to bring it about .
The tragedy is that we are not told, let alone shown why these brave souls are there, so I say to them,
When you can longer bear the opportunists’ criticism of your mission, when you can no longer keep your resolve in the face of indifference by the elitists, when your heart says you can no longer prevent a innocents death at the hands of terrorists, come home.
Until then, soldier on, even though many do not deserve your protection, keep us safe.
Heroes are not heroes at death, they are heroes through life.
I always answer conservative in these polls and still get them. But I will admit to fudging some answers on the other questions. Especially those dealing with the auto industry and will I buy a car, tv, whatever in the next 6 months. Wonder if these polls are where the big 3 got their production info. Also lots of questions on banking, advertising and what company have I heard about that gives to or sponsors sporting events. Some of the questions are very stupid, and you can’t leave any blank. Message comes back , please answer —–.
One question a while ago, under what conditions would you change your vote. Several choices with OTHER. That is where I answered, when hell freezes over.
“Guess we can enjoy not hearing from the windier slaggers.”
LizJ – you are forgetting the inimitable Garth. You can be sure that he’ll never change his style. In one of his final blogs, he mentioned that his relationship with his leader had been strained to the breaking point. I guess he ran up against the same thing as he did with Harper but, for some reason, he was gentle with Dion. With Harper, he waged a non-stop, personal slagfest. He said that he would no longer blog on political issues but…just like Gayle’s retirement from TT’s blog, it was temporary – it comes and goes like the wind.
I have the feeling that it won’t be long until the LPC will have some great soap operas going on within the ranks. I doubt very much if the Goodales of the world will take the coronation of the new kid on the block lightly. Really, when you think about it – Ignatieff blew into town and boom, he was right up there while Ralph and McCallum remain bridesmaids. As for Garth, well, crossing the floor didn’t do much good, did it.
jad at 2:57… “Any of you guys from Ontario like to comment on the fact that YOUR Ontario Minister of Finance is apparently spending his time,(and your taxpayer dollars) working with the Leader of the Official Opposition instead of with the Government ? Isn’t he supposed to be working on the economic crisis ? The auto industry ? Not trying to teach someone how economics work ??? ”
That’s an interesting point. But Tony Clement has in fact has been spending a lot of time with Dwight Duncan in Washington. Even the Liberal appendage The Globe and Mail had this to say recently “A senior official in Premier Dalton McGuinty’s office said relations are good these days with Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s office ‘on a number of levels.’ “
Thankfully Duncan can at least read a financial statement which is more than Greg Sorbara his predecessor could do … amazing as that sounds.
As to teaching the LPC how economics work , isn’t that a good idea? When they are done in about 3 years maybe they should start teaching the fringe parties like the NDP.
Three more of our guys fall to the worst humanity has produced, terrorists spawned by hatred and there seems to be no end in sight with an endless supply of the robots programmed to kill.
Until the free, civilized world decides to go for the head of the snake we can expect it to continue and for decades.
If these latest casualties of this terrorist war are from Base Petawawa as the last ones were, it’s going to be a tough Christmas for the families there. God love them and God bless them.
A poll without an election is meaningless other than it scares one party or the other into smartening up. I get the distinct impression from Iggy that he and his forerunner PM Dithers are cut from the same cloth. Its going to be funny when WK finds out that he bought the same package that he so vehemently rejected last time.
Iggy does not understand the West. Nor does he understand Quebec I don’t think.
The preamble of the Coalition agreement reads:”in partnership with Canadians and Quebeckers.” I’m sorry but that agreement is something Iggy signed and is right from the BQ! How dare the Coalition define Canada in those terms? That is Gilles speaking! He thinks he can speak for all Quebec referring to people from Quebec as “Quebeckers” while the rest of us as “Canadians”. I’m sure he does NOT speak for all the people from Quebec many would call themselves Canadians. And Iggy has the nerve to call PMSH divisive!!! What gall! No, Quebec is not a nation: all the people of Quebec carry Canadian passports and are therefore Canadians. Iggy will wear that nonsense into the election campaign and hanging on to that Coalition shows what a poor judge of Canadians he really is!
Here’s a slagger just out of newspaper editorial writing school. He compares prorogation to child abuse!
http://news.guelphmercury.com/Opinions/article/415722
Never argue with an armed lunatic or a Liberal with lunatic arguements.
JLK, that Mercury piece is that worst piece of tripe I’ve ever read! I’m shocked that the paper would even print it. Disgusting.
Yes, they all want to get rid of PM Harper. They simply are unable to defeat him democratically. He’s too smart, too honest and too good. He makes them look bad. He forces them to take a good look at themselves and they don’t like what they see. It’s so laughable how foolish and sad they are. LOL
‘How To Depress A Quebecois Reporter’ is spreading like an oil slick out here, from people I don’t even know!
‘How To Depress A Quebecois Reporter’ is spreading like an oil slick out here, from people I don’t even know!
Remind the reporter that Quebec is a gimme province tell him also ROC is not going to be threaten by a heavily debt lazy province in fact they should be taking orders from ROC.
Thanks fore reminding us about the Galganov article, JLK. Link here.
But unless I’m missing something, where exactly does that put the Quebekers that still want to belong to Canada? Would they have to move?
Joanne, changing the subject, I have notice that the MSM has avoided the discussion on the liberals’ $54b taken from E.I. then adding a tax to cover up the $54billion. is that how it was done. If so, it means the liberals took money twice. which adds up too.
From The Daily Salt Shaker:
…Read it all. If an article like this becomes popular, it would never find a way onto the CBC or Globe and Mail. He would be written off as a kook, and defamed as an extremist. Even though this sort of opinion is something you would hear everyday at your local pub or Tim Horton’s.
Jen, to be honest I’m not totally sure how that E.I. thing worked and what part of it was illegal, but the fact remains that this has been underplayed by the media for sure.
Even MSM pundits seem to have ignored it. Curious.
“Even MSM pundits seem to have ignored it. Curious”
It is up to bloggers to once again point out to Canadians the Liberal Party boondoggles. I think it is sickening that the “news” of the day is that Harper is doing what is his right to do by appointing senators and yet the Liberals steal from us – AGAIN – and it is a one day story.
There is so wrong about this.
What is it called when a government breaks the rules using money from a fund paid into by workers because it’s mandatory? Misappropriation of funds?
Opposition parties were going after them in the HOC Question Period on the issue, they had to be knowingly breaking the rules.
Did they take the $54 billion so they could say they had a surplus from good fiscal management when all the time the people paid it? We all know huge Liberal surpluses were gained on the backs of the people but this is taking it to a new level.
Don’t look to the MSM for anything damaging to the ‘Libranos’, this is another proof they deserve that moniker. They’d rather yak on something Mr Harper is doing that’s within the rules, appointing Senators to fill vacancies. In fact it’s his duty and responsibility to do so.
Yes, lets keep this surplus boosting, Liberal purposeful misappropriation of funds going, its bound to get out to the people eventually. If we don’t they’ll somehow turn it around and blame the Conservatives who are now charged with paying it back.
further, if the gov’t under both Chretien and Martin broke the law….what’s their penalty? There should be one.
All this proves is that the Ignatieff led Liberals did what good puffins do….hide their poop and hope no one finds it.
Somehow I knew that the MSM would underplay the Libranos and their mishandling of the EI funds. How many other misdeeds of Liberals are out there that the MSM has ignored or covered up? Makes a person wonder.
If this was Conservatives breaking the law with EI, the MSM would be shouting from the rooftops, every fifteen minutes for weeks, getting so called experts and opposition members to vent their outrage and how someone must be held accountable. The papers would have huge frontpage headlines for days on end. It would story number one.
Thank God for at least the internet and the blogs. The bloggers should be getting the story out. How about too, when we all get together with our friends and family over the Christmas holiday, let’s bring it up as a topic of discussion. We should also keep talking about the unholy alliance, I don’t think it’s quite dead yet. The drift I got from listening to John Macallum on the Roy Green show yesterday is that it’s still a possibility if the Harper government doesn’t bring in a budget that they like.
Joanne,
For latest update on state of politics in Canada see:
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/forums/topic6621.html
For the MSM to talk about the American scandal when their very own liberal party did the worse and not talk about it proofs beyond a reasonable doubt that the MSM supports the scandals corruption thievery, dirty scams. THEY ARE NASTY AND DESERVE TO GET OUR FURY.
One thing the MSM in canada FAIL to realize is that we can tell CNN, FOX, EUROPE, of Canada’s liberal party’s scandals and their MSM cover-up.
&54B is alot of money and now this prime minister once again have to clean up the bullshit left behind.
To liberals and their corrupt MSM. “the liberal party stole, raise taxes to coverup-Made many Drastic CUTS to areas where it should have not have been touched simply they wanted more money for themselves then have the audacity to say they created a surplus.
PM Stephen Harper never raised taxes made drastic cuts to the Health, Education, Military and provinces.
Yet he manage to pay down the debt increase fundings for the military, and other areas- ‘WITHOUT STEALING A DIME’.
Michael Ignatieff is a fool to get involve with a corrupt party. so far, he has yet to speak for those who were badly treated by his own party.
correction forget to add: PM Stephen Harper never raised taxes “NOR” made drastic cuts to the Health…….
Chretien, Martin and the rest of the Liberals created surplus budgets by stealing $54 Billion from Canadian taxpayers, cutting transfers to the provinces for health, social services and gutting the military.
Steffi’s uncle;
“Robert Dion, horse thief, sent to Quebec Provincial Prison 1883, escaped 1887, robbed the Canadian Pacific Railway six times. Caught by Pinkerton detectives, convicted and hanged in 1889.”
And Dion knew nothing about the Sponsorship Program that as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs that he was responsible for?
Now the Lieberals have Iggy whose ancestors were tax collectors for the Czar’s in Russia, it’s in the blood.
For anyone who is interested, I just put up a post about western alienation. I am getting trolls on other posts about the coalition. They must be getting desperate.
http://crux-of-the-matter.com/2008/12/14/memo-to-coalition-the-west-wants-to-stay-in/
[...] As JLK pointed out, "he compares prorogation to child abuse!" [...]