I’m seeing a pattern developing here, aren’t you?
CAW offers no breaks for auto bailout – Post
Union: Treasury Board can put offer where the sun don’t shine. – Ottawa Sun.
GM Canada beset by pension crisis – Globe’s Report on Business.
The CAW must give ground – Kelly McParland (Post)
No Concessions? No bailout. – Boston Globe
If you read the comments at many of these links, the recurring sentiment is anger and frustration over big companies and public unions trying to pressure governments into thinking they are ‘indispensible’.
As the Boston Globe article notes:
…But companies across the country are shedding workers and benefits, and no one is showing them much sympathy. There will be no taxpayer-funded federal rescue plan for those Americans who don’t work in industries considered too big to fail. If they are lucky enough to continue working, they have no recourse once employers decide to cut benefits. If they lose their jobs, they face the fear of long-term unemployment and an uncertain economic future …
The Globe also notes that "Concessions shouldn’t be a one-way street. As a condition of any bailout, auto executives should be prepared to reduce their ranks, accept management changes, and take cuts in salaries and bonuses, too."
As the bleeding continues across North America and indeed the whole world, the over-tapped and under-protected regular taxpayers are going to start screaming. And then who will the governments listen to?
- Big Auto, Big Union, or the little guys?
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Thursday Update: There is a rumour circulating that Chinese automakers are interested in scooping up GM and Chryler assets! !
Some of the comments are great.
Autonut - "It is fitting: blue Mao coveralls for all union workers. The mentality is already settled in."
Airhen – "I would look forward to see how the Chinese deal with the UAW."
And this is downright scary!!! On the hook for billions? (Sun):
Ontario could be responsible for "billions" in General Motors pensions if the tottering company goes bankrupt, Finance Minister Dwight Duncan said yesterday.
"It’s a substantial amount of money. I’m not privy to the company’s up-to-date books (but) it would be in the order of magnitude of billions," Duncan told reporters. "This is one of the reasons, one of the very real costs associated, if General Motors is not able to continue viable operations."
Because of a complicated deal cut back in 1992 to preserve plants and jobs in Ontario, GM, Ford and Chrysler — along with some steelmaking firms — were allowed to cut back on their pension funds, instead of paying into what auto consultant Dennis DesRosiers says was a "Too Big To Fail Fund."
GM is the only one of the firms that still pays into the government’s Pension Benefits Guarantee Fund instead of having to fund its pension on a solvency basis.
DesRosiers said the latest estimate he saw for the GM’s unfunded liability was more than $4 billion. "It’s seriously underwater," he said…
How did we get here?
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Friday Update: CBC boss in no hurry to dish on expenses – Sun.
Heard on the news this AM that Toyota is cutting it’s work week by 2 days and slowing production of some vehicles i.e Sienna, Camry…. They seem to GET IT!
I don’t like to generalize on all unions but I am afraid it really has come to that; they have a sense of arrogance that looks and feels like nothing else.
I wish the message would get out to them that if the BIG 3 do NOT negotiate this in good faith, the rest of us will not buy their vehicles. I actually think that unless a, Lee Iacocca, minivan miracle happens we won’t anyways. Thus, a big waste of money.
As for the postal situation, hold firm And make THEM get it. Not many are riding a golden wave right now, why should they?
Heard on the news this AM that Toyota is cutting it’s work week by 2 days and slowing production of some vehicles i.e Sienna, Camry…. They seem to GET IT!
Bec, I saw a brief clip of some Toyota and Honda bigwigs being interviewed and they were asked if they would look for government help. They shook their heads, smiled politely and moved on. I think it is a culture thing, and I admire their ethic.
Regarding Canada Post, thanks for the memory jog. A shining example of an overpaid, archaic Crown Corporation that badly needs a shaking up.
On unions, Cupe, the City of Ottawa workers union, told the city counsel yesterday in no uncertain terms that the city has NO BUSINESS meddling in the collective bargaining agreements between city/workers about freezing their wages for a year. They showed up en masse to influence a committee meeting to see if the city can freeze wages for a year to save $30M from the budget. Of course, the comittee gave in and the proposal is off the table. Cupe is currently preparing for a strike to fight for wage INCREASES. FYI the AVERAGE salery for a city employee is well over $70,000.
CAW is rotten and it’s workers are not “Skilled” they operate robots and can be trained in a day.
CUPE workers should be listed as essential and not allowed to strike….Fire the lot and hire new workers for half the cost to the citizen.( it’s blackmail not negotiating)
BEC, then don’t, when is the last time you heard of a construction trade striking?, and we deal with private industry.here in BC it’s been twenty yrs.
Of course the Postal union is on strike, it is almost Christmas.
I’m on my way out the door, but a quick post.
As most know I’ve been a CAW member for 30 years. Please don’t lump us all as greedy, out of touch, arrogant, etc. It’s the neanderthal’s such as Hargrove and now his hand picked replacement Lewenza that refuse to consider concessions, not the workers.
I’ll post when I get home later today some info, but for now everyone should be aware the average Joe?Jill on the line has no problem sitting down and giving things up if it means restoring and strengthening the companies. My employer had offered an unbelievable deal earlier this year, that would have effectively removed much of the “legacy” cost disadvantage, allowed early retirement for workers, meant new investment and jobs in the Canadian plants, etc.
THE NATIONL HEADED BY HARGROVE REFUSED TO EVEN CONSIDER IT LET ALONE BE PUT TO A VOTE!!
I am in the position of taking a sizeable hit on my pension and benefits, but am now firmly against a bail-out. How many are aware that certain Chrysler execs are in line for millions in bonuses next year? Or that GM CEO received a pay increase of 64 % last year? Imagine what he would have go if he did his job competently.
Kind of ironic the security letters I need to type in are i.v. as in life support.
paulstuff makes a good point. I’ve heard often enough that it’s not the workers it’s their leaders that are the problem. There’s a reason that unions towns like Whitby and Oshawa keep re-electing the folks they do.
What this tells me is that the union leadership is grossly out of touch with its members. If that’s the case then how representative of their members are the heads sitting at the negotiating table? Quick answer – not very.
I believe our gov’t knows that. Perhaps the whole union landscape needs to shift sooner rather than later. All unions, not just auto union, CUPE, and teachers, and posties.
At some point the public is going to want to see something in return. I believe that that point is now.
I don’t think that public is being unreasonable, it’s all about that good old accountability and transparency that we hear so often. Too many still appease us with talk, but rarely walk the walk.
I really believe that the public feels that their hands are tied and quite frankly don’t know who to believe or what the truth is.
Paul, I was thinking about you and thanks so much for commenting before leaving this morning.
You are so right that not all union workers should be painted with the same brush. My cousin lost his union job due to a stubborn union leadership, and the plant closed. Now he drives transport trucks and is away from his family a lot.
He would have voted in favour of concessions if anyone had bothered to ask him.
“BEC, then don’t, when is the last time you heard of a construction trade striking?, and we deal with private industry.here in BC it’s been twenty yrs.”
Precisely, don’t(benefit of the doubt applied)…. but in the case of construction you are in BC and are all the trades not primarily union? Is there a choice? My Brother in law is VP construction for a large EL co and only hires union when HE HAS TO…last choice.Talks about BC all the time and not glowingly. BTW, he is a journeyman EL and hates unions.
“It’s the neanderthal’s such as Hargrove and now his hand picked replacement Lewenza that refuse to consider concessions, not the workers.”
Paulsstuff, from the moment that you brought up these points I have been convinced. Does anyone need convincing about Hargrove though? He is a real case of hot air and indignant indignation.
It is fitting: blue Mao coveralls for all union workers. The mentality is already settled in.
We had them. About ten years ago in the paint shop they gave us powder blue two piece uniforms, with matching hats. I used to walk into the sanding booth and say “welcome to the Peoples Republic of Chrysler.”
Does this count as a prophesy?
Brian, that’s pretty scary alright. So you’re in the automotive industry right? How are things going for you?
Simple answer Joanne, I went to work today and there was work. Tomorrow…?
I’m at the Brampton Chrysler plant and we are overbuilding lie crazy right now. What is down the road, they prefer not to tell us. In fact, they have a meeting every Thursday to discuss whether we will be running production the next week. We hear about it Thursday afternoon.
We haven’t had any downtime yet during this, but it’s coming and it will likely be as bad as I’ve ever seen it. The worst for me? 1989-90, we were off 2 weeks in December and six weeks after Christmas. At the end of January they called us and said, take an extra two weeks. Of course other years we work scheduled 48 hour weeks and all the Sundays they can cram in, and we ran like that from ’92 until around 2000.
It’s a feast or famine industry, presently we seem to be in a bit of a famine. On the bright side, I expect my blogging to pick up in the new year.
Been in the UAW and worked at Bud Automotive in Kitchener …. never believed for a minute that the unionw looking out for me in any way shape or form.
The unions are a protection racket that is in the business of extorting dues from hourly wage members to fund leaders to the tune of millions. If you think those jokers care about anything but their own bank accounts you haven’t met any of them.
That was back in the 70′s and things were rocky then with the artificial fuel crisis and the big three looking for any easy out they could get.
The more things change the more the stay the same.
I am amazed at the pension benefits they’ve managed to hook the companies for but there is no way that I’d go back there and stick out the last 30 plus years just to have that in my pocket.
My guess is that those pensions are going to melt down so for anyone not yet eligible …. good luck.
In fact, they have a meeting every Thursday to discuss whether we will be running production the next week. We hear about it Thursday afternoon.
Wow, that would be hard on the nerves. I hope things work out for you, Brian.
On the bright side, I expect my blogging to pick up in the new year.
lol! That’s the stuff. Always an up-side if you look hard enough.
I also work at the Brampton plant, and as I have predicted here before, the plant will close in 2010. I stand by that prediction, and think the announcement will come AFTER the Big-3 get their bailout money. McGuinty said this week even with the bail-out money there will be less vehicles produced in Ontario.
We have no new production models once the current 300, Charger, and Challenger cease production in July or August of 2010.
OMMAG made an insightful comment. The Caw is somewhat of a racket. The executive has an interest in not giving up pay concessions, as the dues are based on 2.5 hours per month. A decrease in pay would result in a decrease in revenue from dues. Take a look at the Port Elgin facility. Or the fact ex NDP MP Peggy Nash just returned to her job at the National with a $135,000 a year salary, and you can see why Hargrove and Lewenza want the gravy train to continue.
Then again, when plants close because of their neanderthal way of thinking, those ex-emplyees now pay no dues. DUH!
Thanks for the insight, OMMAG & Paulsstuff. Rather depressing, isn’t it?
I stand by that prediction, and think the announcement will come AFTER the Big-3 get their bailout money. McGuinty said this week even with the bail-out money there will be less vehicles produced in Ontario.
This is the big issue – Do we have any guarantees? I’d don’t think so.
The Ontario mayors are freaking out though because if all these automotive-related businesses go under and the tax burden has to be shifted to the lowly property owner, there’s going to be hell to pay at the next municipal election, and that’s not far off!