…besides the ballots, that is.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you today two pieces of rather contradictory evidence for your thoughtful consideration and analysis:
The first is a report by the Vancouver Sun stating that we will have to wait until at least today to hear what will happen next in the allegedly botched recount situation.
The second is the apparently official results on the Elections Canada site which one of my readers (Paul) noticed yesterday. The status for Vancouver South changed from "In Progress" to "Completed".
And so I humbly beg the jury to carefully ponder the following question:
What’s up with that???
* * * *
Update: Good for this Abbotsford resident for speaking out in The Hill Times:
...Why were only 28 boxes out of 184 recounted in Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh’s Vancouver South riding? If they could find 11 more spoiled votes in 28 boxes, think how many they could have found in 184? Isn’t that a gross example of favouritism towards the Liberals? All votes should be recounted regardless of what the outcome may be.
Way to go, Louise Fribance, and thanks to the Hill Times for publishing her letter.
I would suggest that anyone who cares about democracy in this country should pummel Vancouver newspapers and radio talkshows with your complaints and concerns.
Do. It. Now. (Thanks, Ezra.)
And my sincere thanks to Sandy for continuing to apply the pressure at Crux of the Matter.
Kady’s still keeping an eye on this story as well.
11:26 am – Kady now has an update. I have a feeling that Kady would like to get to the bottom of this just as much as I do, but I believe her motive is to dispel the perception of wrong-doing here. Personally, I just want to see justice done.
Please count all the freaking ballots! It’s just that simple.
Afternoon Update: Meanwhile we hear from the Province just how difficult it actually was to get local media inside the recount in Keith Martin’s riding:
…Lawyer Michael Scherr, acting on behalf of the Times Colonist, made a motion in front of Supreme Court Justice R. Dean Wilson that the newspaper should be present at the recount.
Scherr argued a media presence would increase public confidence in the electoral process. He also cited the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, saying there must be a balance between election secrecy and freedom of the press.
Elections Canada disagreed. The entire process is secret, the Elections Canada representative suggested. But Scherr argued that the door had been opened by a 2005 recount in Parry Sound-Muskoka, Ont., involving Tony Clement…
However as we all know now, democracy won out at the end.
And as Conservative Reporter says, Squeaky clean across the board needed here.
Evening Update: Kady has some info:
…Well, they’re more than halfway through the boxes, and I think they’re hoping to finish the count by the end of the day, so if there are, in fact, 600 suspicious ballots, they’ll eventually be uncovered. (My guess is that it was a data entry error, since it was corrected by the next day — before the recount had even begun.)…
It means they paid time and a half to count the votes and screw them up again.
The EC entry is dated October 24, 2008 so perhaps it is just a technicality. i.e. one was a recount and one IS an appeal of a recount.
What happens today should get us our answers or more disdain at the process in this case.
Having said all of that, there ARE PLAYERS in this situation that could have brought transparency and DID NOT! That is appalling, I think.
Good morning Joanne.
I just re-posted and will add this link to my update. By the way, in your comment on my thread, you didn’t seem to notice I had put up a new template yesterday. I suppose that is a good thing because it means it must have looked natural.
What do you think of it? It is called “fluid blue.”
Anyway, I do not hold out a lot of hope on this so-called “recount” because the media has let down the ball. All we can suggest is that visitors e-mail the Vancouver Sun, Kady O’Malley, Elections Canada and anyone else they think can make a difference.
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The EC entry is dated October 24, 2008 so perhaps it is just a technicality. i.e. one was a recount and one IS an appeal of a recount.
Bec, I’ve been keeping an eye on this over the past week or so, and it always said “in progress”, even after the first so-called recount. So hopefully it’s just a case of someone at EC making a mistake on the website.
Intervention from the highest Court is in order here.
Either they recount ALL ballots or it’s a sham. As it stands now, they appear to want Ujjal to remain the winner, fearing a recount of ALL ballots may take him out.
Is this what they want hanging over them? Or do they really care about this democratic right to vote and be counted? This riding should have been an automatic total recount with only 33 votes difference, now 22 with selected ballots recounted.
It’s really a scandal.
Come on MSM get off your butts and report on this. Every vote is worth counting no matter your address!!
Is the CPC and PMO required to ’stay out’ of this issue?
Why are we not hearing more from them?
I just followed my own advice and emailed a local radio station. The topic lent itself well to a segway to the Vancouver South story.
Fay said: Come on MSM get off your butts and report on this. Every vote is worth counting no matter your address!!
Exactly! We get pounded over the head in the media to get out and vote, and rightly so. How many times have we heard “EVERY VOTE COUNTS”? So if that concept has any credibility, then it is imperative that they ‘(re)Count Every Vote’ in the close Vancouver South riding.
Cmon Judge … do the right thing here. Don’t do it for the CPC or Liberal. Do it for Democracy. The citizens of Vancouver South who got off their butts, and voted deserve nothing less.
If Dosajhn wins by two votes after all of the ballots are counted that’s OK by me, I just want to see a proper recount.
Here’s a little something for you that you might find interesting Joanne;
http://stevejanke.com/archives/277144.php
Joanne,
Good question at Kady’s about ITQ but and a big BUT what DOES “Inside the Queensway” mean exactly? Is that sort of like “THEY SAID” as in no one really?
Bec, I’m not sure exactly what significance “Queensway” holds.
Ask her for us!
Joanne,
Like Toronto, Ottawa has a Queensway which cuts through the city east/west. That portion above the auto-route and the Quebec border represents the downtown area and appropriately Parliament Hill. Perhaps Kady has a better explanation.
That would certainly seem logical, MadMacs. Thanks.
“That would certainly seem logical,MadMacs. Thanks.”
Ah ha, a poster here definately made this make sense.
Bec, yeah. I think we have solved this very cryptic puzzle.
Inside the Queensway simply means “those in the know.” Those involved in the political scene. In Ontario, it’s those inside “QP” even if the dept. they work for is elsewhere in the city. In Washington, it is “inside the beltway.” Parliamentary Press Gallery talk.
TangoJuliette sez:
One vote per citizen. Unless, of course, one is Maria Minna. Then one can officially vote more than once in a Federal election.
Elections Canada?
The libs have yet to clear up their leadership campaign fundraising debts, well past the appropriate time, WITH extensions tacked on. Why are the Liberal Offices not being RCMP-raided, with Media in full attendance?
The galling beauty of of the news heralding the Newly-elected Conservative MP, Peter Braid, is quite astounding, especially when one hears the background to the local liberal nastiness.
Braid, in a 17 ballot “landslide” wiped out long time arrogant Liberal MP dude Andrew Telegdi. Defeated Andy had been heard quite often, pontificating that while many local Libearal stalwart associates would crash and burn, including Lib whip Karen Redman, Andy-boy arrogantly rubbed salt in their worries with his assurances of HIS resounding victory to come.
Uh…. meh!
Not this year.
Well done MP Braid, and the rest of his fabulous team.
t.e.& o.e.
tj
http://enr.elections.ca/ElectoralDistricts_e.aspx?ed=1324
Results Validated by the Returning Officer
Validation Date: October 15, 2008 View preliminary results
View validated results by a judge
A judicial recount was conducted in this electoral district.
Vancouver South
Party Candidate Votes % Votes
Marxist-Leninist Charles Boylan 212 0.5
NDP-New Democratic Party Ann Chambers 7,369 17.6
Liberal Ujjal Dosanjh 16,101 38.5
Green Party Csaba Gulyas 2,067 4.9
Conservative Wai Young 16,068 38.4
Total number of valid votes: 41,817
Rejected ballots: 259
Total number of votes: 42076,
=============================================
http://enr.elections.ca/ElectoralDistricts_e.aspx?ed=1324
Results as Certified by a Judge
Recount date: October 24, 2008 View preliminary results
View validated results by the returning officer
Vancouver South
Party Candidate Votes % Votes
Marxist-Leninist Charles Boylan 213 0.5
NDP-New Democratic Party Ann Chambers 7,382 17.6
Liberal Ujjal Dosanjh 16,109 38.5
Green Party Csaba Gulyas 2,068 4.9
Conservative Wai Young 16,087 38.4
Total number of valid votes: 41,859
Rejected ballots: 218
Total number of votes: 42,077
==========================================
Rejected ballots: 259 – 218 = 41 extra votes
Total number of votes: 42,077-42076 = 1 extra vote
==================================================
Total extra votes = 42
===================================================
Marxist-Leninist Charles Boylan 213-212= 1 extra vote
NDP- Ann Chambers 7,382-7,369 = 13 extra votes
Liberal Ujjal Dosanjh 16,109-16,101 = 8 extra votes
Green Party Csaba Gulyas 2,068-2,067 = 1 extra vote
Conservative Wai Young 16,087-16,068 = 19 extra votes
=====================================================
Total extra votes = 42
=====================================================
After elections
Ujjal Dosanjh with 16,101 votes was leading Wai Young with 16,068 votes by 33 votes.
after initial Judicial recount
Ujjal Dosanjh with 16,109 votes was leading Wai Young with 16,087 votes by 22 votes.
===================================================
At least their math adds up and this is all I can say.
Inside the Queensway simply means “those in the know.” Those involved in the political scene.
Ah-ha. Thanks, Sandy.
So maybe Bec was onto something after all…
Why isn’t the CPC ( or somebody! ) suing Elections Canada over this to force them to recount all ballots?
Yeah contact the media sure sure sure. My letter today to Vancouver talk radio bigwigs like Bill Good:
It is Monday. There is currently a very significant re-count of the federal election results going on in Ujjal Dosanjh’s riding of Vancouver South. You’ll recall the Honourable Mr. Dosanjh. Here’s a link if you don’t recall details(www.google.com). The last we heard there was only a 22 vote margin of victory in the disputed riding. Mr. Dosanjh has been rumoured to even be a candidate for the federal Liberal leadership. Is this not newsworthy????
Hey Bill, Judge Dohm, you know, Patrick Dohm, the Associate Chief Justice of British Columbia, is actually the one overseeing the re-count!
Oh yeah bicycle lanes on the Burrard Street Bridge discussed at 9am ….AGAIN! Forgot that it is municipal election time and the old bike lane canard rises again. As if it hasn’t been buried and fully discredited many many times before. Go green Bill, Get your gold star, then just go away.
Please (ptui).
May I suggest some of the reasons the MSM is not paying too much attention to this “recount”?
1. They’re all ga-ga, Obama watching.
2. The Conservatives won, so who cares if one more of them doesn’t get a seat that is perhaps rightfully hers? (Ms. Wai Young).
3. Electors? Do they really care what the outcome is? They’re sooo cynical (wring hands meaningfully here). Isn’t the fact they stayed away in droves (those who traditionally vote Liberal, anyway) ample proof of that?
The question has been asked several times..but not answered. Where’s the CPC on all of this? Wouldn’t you think that their war room should be all over this? War rooms don’t(or shouldn’t) disappear altogether.
Can’t say as I’ve heard a peep from the Conservatives at all actually.
Oh, and to all those here from Ontario – it’s official – under Dalton’s watch we’re now a have-not province(see COTM), and we let him get away. We are such suckers.
Via Mike, at Kady’s blog – A very disturbing report.
As Paul said yesterday, I have a stinking feeling…
“Where is the CPC on all of this?”
I do not think that they can comment.?? There were no comments during any of the other recounts (oh darn, there is THAT WORD again..recount)
If however this does not pass the smell test, I think that we will hear some noise. Big time…
It is past 2pm BC time….are you guys DONE for the day?
If however this does not pass the smell test, I think that we will hear some noise. Big time…
I think you’re right, Bec.
I posted a bit of an update from Kady’s blog. It seems that an hour or so ago they were half way through counting the ballots.
Hey, Jan. I meant to say earlier that I loved your comment and your email to Vancouver talk radio.
You’re right that the concerns of the media seem so trivial compared to an issue as important as democracy and transparency in our electoral process.
Well done!
So what doesn’t add up?
Media Nitwits are off on other memes post election.
Liberal judge doesn’t want to do his job.
Results …. completely predictable.
Understanding that the first character trait of a LIberal is the proclivity for self delusion … after attaining that ability all the other lies just come naturally.
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