Yesterday was quite a ride. My wrists are complaining again from all the typing, so posting will be brief for the next little while. My deepest thanks to all the bloggers who continue to pick up the torch. More here , here, here , here and here. (Sorry if I missed anyone!)
Two significant items today though:
1. The Vancouver Sun gives us a bit more information as to the process involved regarding Wai Young’s plan to challenge the partial recount – Tory candidate to sue over Dosanjh win:
…Wai Young had originally lost in the Oct. 14 federal election to Dosanjh. The recount narrowed the margin to only 22 votes from the initial 33-vote gap.
Conservative party official Ray Leitch said in an interview Monday that Elections Canada recounted the votes from 28 of 184 ballot boxes.
A lawyer for the party will appear before a B.C. Supreme Court judge Thursday requesting that the judicial recount check every ballot box.
"The judge has the prerogative to decide how many ballot boxes he’s going to look at, and he decided after the 28 that he felt it was enough and there wasn’t a trend there," said Leitch.
"We thought that there was a trend coming down and that it possibly could change if we continued doing the count."
The party is still deciding whether to continue up the judicial chain to the Appeal Court if the Supreme Court judge denies the continuation of the recount.
"We’re looking at that option right now. It depends on the reason he gives," he said…
Yesterday there was a lot of speculation in comments about whether a new judge would be sought by the CPC, but it would appear from the Sun article that they are planning to first give Justice Dohm an opportunity to address this issue. Perhaps someone else is better able to interpret it than I have. (Swift?) (Dr. Dawg?) In any case, I’m sure we’d all appreciate hearing Justice Dohm’s reasoning on this ‘recount’.
2.) The Sun article also mentions yesterday’s recount in Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca, in which Conservative candidate Tony DeSouza voluntarily ended the process when it became mathematically impossible for him to be declared the victor.
The Times Colonist won the unprecedented opportunity of witnessing the recount and gave an insider’s perspective on the event – Rare glimpse inside a judicial recount. It’s a fascinating read, but what surprised me was how reporter Rob Shaw ended the story:
…Around 5:20 p.m., with all the votes counted, Conservative candidate Troy DeSouza was down 70 votes to Martin and there were only 67 disputed ballots for the judge’s consideration.
DeSouza’s lawyers then asked the judge to terminate the process and concede defeat.
However, by ending the recount early, the lawyers invalidated the entire recount process. It meant the original results from the Oct. 14 election — in which Martin won by two fewer votes — stand as official, despite a recount process that took more than 100 people an entire day to complete.
In another article, Rob Shaw details some of the costs of the recount:
The basic cost of the recount was covered by Elections Canada, including a $750 charge for the room at the Fairmont Empress where the recount was held and more than 100 bottles of water. Workers paid for their own lunches.
Both the Liberals and Conservatives were each permitted to bring four lawyers and 25 staff. Elections Canada provided its own lawyer from Ottawa and more than 50 officials.
Martin said his four-person legal team — which could have billed hundreds of dollars an hour — worked for free. DeSouza’s lawyers declined to comment on legal fees.
Wilson adjourned his ruling on who will pay the legal fees until a future date.
It almost seems as if Shaw is fixated on the costs, and is suggesting that this process was a waste of time and effort.
I disagree. How can you put a price on democracy?
* * * *
Evening Update: H/T to Bruce for this latest Kady update – Vancouver South Recount: The Latest Intrigue – Plus Memories of Ballot Battles Past.
Man, I wish I could get paid for doing that stuff.
Dr. Roy – Counting the votes. Dr. Roy asks Ujjal to do the honourable thing and demand a complete recount.
Wednesday Update: Narrow margin puts spotlight on Election Recounts – Vancouver Sun.
We’ve witnessed from this half baked recount lack of common sense and logic, two attributes one would expect to see in a learned judge.
As ballot boxes go, you can’t pick a few randomly and decide there’s a trend, even the last box opened could change everything when the vote is so close.
The ballots contained in each box are not sorted for one candidate or the other but you’d have to assume that according to the fuzzy logic used in this farcical recount in Vancouver South.
Our ancestors paid a much higher price than any money can buy for our democratic freedoms, we can’t cop out now.
I’d like to know how Martin can get away with his lawyers donating their services, shouldn’t this be reflected in the cost of his campaign expenses?
Joanne,
You might consider rewriting your post as it seems to me that you fell into Liberal spin trap and it will sound quite stupid when DeSouza’s press relase comes out.
This was not an automatic recount but contested re-count. If Troy DeSouza were to lose it he would have to pay his own and Martin’s legal costs. If Martin were to lose it he would not have to pay anything.
What Martin said that his legal team was working for free for him was a total BS ment to cover up of what actually took place.
Just look at what DeSouza was up against 8 lawyers (four on his team and four on Martin’s team) at very modest $250.00 per hour. That is $2000.00 MINIMUM FOR EVERY HOUR of that re-count if he lost or $1000.00 MINIMUM FOR EVERY HOUR if he won(paying only his own lawyers). Make this recount last four days at 12 hours a day (lawyers have to be paid for travel time as well) and you get DeSouza’s cost $100000.00 when he loses or $50000.00 if he wins. These are bare minimums actual cost is more like twice of my estimate so we are not talking here of some chicken feed.
That’s what I was wondering too, Laurie.
The ballots for each candidate should have been in separate envelopes and had a seal on it, signed by the DRO and any scrutineer that wanted to sign it.
If those ballots were not in the envelopes, with each name on it then something is very wrong.
Also in that ballot box are stmts of the vote, unused ballots, rejected/spoiled ballots and all the other paper work from the day of the poll.
Joanne you are doing amazing work. This issue will not go away so fast because of you!!!
Joanne,
I made a fool of myself I did not realise that they did count all the ballots in one day and it was only a question of disputed ballots that remained.
MSM does a good job of misinforming public with their statements.
I don’t think requesting a new judge is an option, from my reading of the Elections Act. They will be asking the judge to order Justice Dohm to comply with the procedures set out in the Canada Elections Act. Justice Dohm will have an opportunity to defend his actions, or rather lack of action.
I don’t think some peoples allegations that he stopped counting because the margin of victory was decreasing will be acceptable. This portion of the act seems to assume that a sample of the ballots is not acceptable.
304.
(2) If a recount of all of the ballots returned is required, the judge may open the sealed envelopes that contain the used and counted, unused, rejected and spoiled ballots. The judge shall not open any envelopes that appear to contain other documents or refer to any other election documents.
There are other places where the same assumption appears to hold. Justice Dohm’s reason for halting the recount is going to be very interesting to read.
There was very poor planning (I guess because of short notice…judge having to get recount going within 4 days – or am I confusing another recount…duh…who can tell..am on overload)
but…the room conditions for this Vancouver South recount were not ideal and cramped. Lack of air and a feeling of unease would influence decisions…
Let’s hope what is presented on Thursday is enough to convince a Judge of some sort of action or solution.
****countdown********
Joanne & company are on the job 
watching 
tick, tick, tick, tick,
Some of these problems could be avoided if votes were counted the day AFTER an election.
According to some posters who’ve worked as scrutineers, election days are long and exhausting, so the count at the end of the day inevitably leads to mistakes.
Why not put off the count to the following day?
That would also solve the problem of B.C.ers knowing the outcome of elections before their polls close.
I realize my suggestion would not solve the present situation, and might displease the network anchors racing to be the first to declare the winner, but which is more important?
Laurie,you’ve made a great point. Donating services does have a value.
The one good thing about these close races is that the Liberal that came so close to losing will find some reason to retire before the next election. Saw it happen in my riding of Huron-Bruce when Paul Steckle was humiliated and almost lost the last election. Now we have a Conservative MP.
Joanne,
One thing that I still do not get is this:
At the end of the count Martin was leading by 70 votes over DeSouza, there were 67 disputed ballots for judge’s consideration but according to Election Canada there were also 129 rejected ballots.
http://enr.elections.ca/ElectoralDistricts_e.aspx?ed=1298
Nobody mentions what happened to them. Were they also examined and counted??
The reason I ask is because ballots are rejected when they are questioned by scrutineers on Election Day in a process that was repeated at the court yesterday.
Common sense tells me that all disputed ballots (rejected during election and questioned during re-count) should be examined by the judge. Rejected ballots as far as I know could not be just put back into ballot box for re-count (re-examination) so their number would not decrease at the end of the re-count, so we can be assured that this 67 disputed ballots were in addition to 129 rejected ballots for the total 196 ballots. 196 “undecided” votes is much greater number than 70 votes that Martin was leading over DeSouza. It seems that we will never know for sure who actually won in that riding.
Ugh, why bottled water? They don’t have a municipal water supply and glasses where they recounted?
Saskboy, that suprised me too. A lot of public buildings in Waterloo Region are banning water bottles now. And I thought B.C. was so green!
Joanne you are doing amazing work. This issue will not go away so fast because of you!!!
Thanks, Dr. Roy. But I can’t take all the credit. Lots of typing hands (and thumbs) involved here.
Thanks for your input here, Swift.
BTW, if anyone is interested, Kady has posted an update at Macleans. She’s getting into some pretty technical stuff.
…duh…who can tell..am on overload)
I hear ya, CR!
Gabby, I like your proposal! It makes sense to me.
Ruth, that’s right. Always a silver lining.
Joanne, I agree that Shaw seems to emphasize cost in that story. But the costs seem rather small (if you don’t put a $ value on the volunteers’ time and effort) so maybe that was his point. Mr. Shaw also wrote another piece with a more detailed anatomy of how the recount was conducted.
I am feeling guilty right now because I didn’t write another post. I just kept updating the main one I put up on Saturday.
One of the reasons is that if I did, the NN link I had would have been lost and the number of visitors was phenomenal — in the many thousands rather than the usual hundreds!
The other is that the BT agreggator is not working properly so none of my posts are getting up so no one would see an article unless they happened to pop on by.
Apparently blogroll.com is updating and it may actually take weeks before Stephen Taylor can get my URL fixed.
So, if not much is going on at Cotm, that is why. But, I really feel I was part of this team who got this message out. Thanks to everyone.
Hey, no worries Sandy! It was good to keep updating the same post for continuity. Thanks for all your support with this. (Yeah, my hits were crazy too!)
It’ll be interesting to see what happens Thursday.
Hi Joanne. Haven’t been posting much due to other committments but I just wanted congratulate you for doing such a fantastic job on this topic, and also a tip of the hat to all the other bloggers as well.
If a proper recount still finds Dosanjh the winner I would have no problem with it. Regaardless, this was and is a tremendous fight for democracy and what’s right.
Keep up the great work.
Link to Kady’s latest;
http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/28/vancouver-south-recount-the-latest-intrigue-plus-memories-of-ballot-battles-past/
…If a proper recount still finds Dosanjh the winner I would have no problem with it…
Thanks, Paul. That’s exactly how I feel about it.
Bruce, thanks for the link. I must admit I’m rather surprised/befuddled/pleased that Kady would take such an interest in this.
Perhaps she can’t believe such a lack of democracy could exist in Canada and wants to dispel the notion as soon as possible. Who knows?
Hey Joanne,
Just left Kady’s site and it is great of her to be interested but do you have to delete me when I say that some of her contributors are ignorant morons that have no interest in truth and democracy. Give these people a soother!
There I said it, feel better and you can properly do the deed! lol
Bec, why would I delete the truth?
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