As the Liberal caucus members emerged from their post-mortem meeting yesterday, they all put on their upbeat, scripted masks to face reporters and cameras.
The irony here is the timing of the release of Paul Martin’s book, which clearly blames Chretien for his failures and frustration. We’ll see how long this little charade can be maintained.
Oh, how I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that caucus meeting!
We do get a few tidbits from various sources, such as the Record telling us that Karen Redman * received the most ‘heartfelt’ response. Of course, Karen was the Liberal Whip who told which MPs to stay away from crucial votes. Funny how so many Liberal voters ended up doing the same.
Suddenly, the Liberals see the error of their ways, and say that abstaining is no longer an option! I wonder how Karen feels about that today.
But Senator David Smith (perhaps unwittingly) summed up the reason for the feigned Liberal solidarity strategy:
When a reporter asked Senator David Smith what other issues besides leadership the caucus needed to discuss, he gave her a long, quizzical look.
"Get back in government," Smith finally responded.
It’s the power, stupid.
* * * *
Update: Excellent column by Rick Salutin in today’s Globe - Dion and the cult of the leader.
*Conservative Reporter has a great post about the K-W results here.
So David Smith said “Get back in government.” Doesn’t that tell you everything you would ever need to know about Liberals. Never mind dealing with leftover scandals and corruption. Obviously these people just don’t get it! Since so many in the MSM are in their back pockets, I guess Joanne it will be up to all of us in the blogosphere to get the word out — that Liberals really do not care about the Canadian people or good government, just power for powers sake.
And, I am getting very fed up listening to the Liberals and the MSM spin this: “Chretien is the only PM who won three back-to-back majorities.”
Well, he did it ONLY because the right was split and ONLY because he dropped the writ whenever the right was struggling — as in just voted in a new leader.
Meaning, he wouldn’t be able to do it now against the Harper Conservatives.
Hope the Conservatives put everything they want to do in the Throne speech and the first budget — because the games will start just as soon as a new Liberal leader is chosen. Guaranteed!
So David Smith said “Get back in government.” Doesn’t that tell you everything you would ever need to know about Liberals.
That’s right, Sandy! That’s their ‘vision for Canada’.
Get back in power and all will be well.
In the 1997 election Chretien won a bare majority, with 157 seats. This was the election where millions in Adscam money was used for campaigning in Quebec.
Testimony at the Gomery inquiry showed that at least 12 Quebec ridings received Adscam funds used to pay for campaign expenses Many of the Quebec ridings were won by the Liberal’s by very close margins over the Bloc. Some of that stolen money was used to pay for vans to get Liberal voters to the polls.
I think it’s safe to say that there should be an asterisk beside the 1997 election results. If you lowball and figure 25% of those Quebec ridings were won with stolen Adscam money, Chretien goes from a majority to a minority government. Hardly an impressive legacy.
In regards to Kinsella on your previous post, I see his buddy Dalton McGuinty is planning on running a $500 million deficit, yet nary a mention on his blog, yet seems infatuated with the fact Harper might run a deficit.
So Warren, if you are reading this, here is a simple question. How much would McGuinty’s budget deficit be without that extra $1 billion dollars in increased transfer payments be from Harper?
And you seem to continually bring up your other buddy Chretien’s record of eliminating the federal deficit. Do you have any problem with Harper slashing transfer payments, health care funding, using E.I. surplus. etc., to balance his own budget
I have been doing a bit of thinking since the election is over and debating the Liberal’s misfortune. In all their turbulent recent past one name keeps showing up: Chretien. He fought with Turner resulting in Turner’s loss of power, which paved the way for Chretien to take over as leader won. After he became Prime Minister and I might add did nothing he fought with Martin and when losing set the mechanisms in place to make sure that Martin would lose the next election to the point of having his leg humping lap dog WK actually pull for Harper. Since Martin and Chretien are gone the split continues. Were I a Liberal I wouldn’t be speaking of Chretien in too glowing terms. He was little more than a power hungry thug who did little except help his cronies once in power.
“He was little more than a power hungry thug who did little except help his cronies once in power.”
One really has to wonder if the whole “Power Corp” conspiracy does play into Chretien’s stranglehold on the Liberal party?
Is it a good idea for the Libs to cancel the policy part of their convention next Spring in order to select a leader? When was the last time they held a policy convention? Was it a good idea over the past year to rely on Bob Rae to develop the Party policy? Will the media ever ask to see a policy convention? Do the Libs even care about having a policy convention? The response by Senator Smith seems to answer these questions.
I’m a Chretien fan. At least he did much more damage to the Liberal Party than he did to Canada, just the reverse of Trudeau.
It’s going to be fun watching how the various Liberal MPs act under their lame duck leader. My take is that most Liberal MPs who got elected believe it was because of their personal appeal and the strong Liberal brand. Their re-election was in spite of the heavy weight of Dion and his carbon tax.
So they must feel almost zero loyalty to Dion and his policies. Their attachements will be to the Liberal brand name, and the voters in their ridings. What unites these MPs is the red logo on their team jackets. They are going to feel free to comment, act, and vote in the House according to their own best judgements and future re-election interests.
Meanwhile, there are many decisions that have to be made such as who is in the shadow cabinet, sitting arrangements in the House, who asks what questions, spokespersons for the media, and so on. Surely Dion won’t be given the final word on many of these key decisions. For example, what if Iggy still wants the 4th and 5th questions in QP but Rae says no way ?
I suspect many Liberal MPs will spend most of their time doing useful work for their constituents in their ridings, avoiding the circus of their caucus in the House.
I was hoping someone would bring up the senators statement. Proof positive the only thing the liberals want is back at the trough. I agree that PMSH should put everything he wants to do in the Throne speech and the budget should make massive cuts to any sp interest or gender program. Only, next time he makes cuts get the facts about them out before doing it.
Has May thrown her hat in for leader yet.
We just have to wait a few more days for things to turn around or get very much worse. Nov 4.
I think it will be a closer election than the media predicts.
Obamas plan to give a 3000. tax break for every new job is not going over well with small business owners. Like, how can I hire someone for 50,000, pay 15,000 in payroll taxes and health care and think 3000.00 is good economic sense. But if they don’t hire, unions will have the right to come in and organize the smallest business, then threaten to strike, closing the business.
Scary times for both our countries.
Hey Jo – a bit off topic but you have to read Chucker’s new suggestion for a “blame registry” – I think he might be onto something!! I won’t put the link because it will just get caught up in jail and you will have to spring it.
Chretien just hates to be out of the news. He must have hired a PR man. Latest is a university honorary docturate. Good Grief. Anytime there is a compliment or an approving comment sent the conservative way about balanced budgets and not deficits, he jumps in to point out his record. He has done this twice now that I can remember. I didn’t notice him jumping in to refute Adscam. He lies pretty low on that and has spent a lot of dollars in legal fees to keep his name from being muddy in the history books. What ever happened to the notion that the Captain is the one blamed, or the CEO, any top dog takes the fall. Not him. Now what does that tell you. A wily fox of a man. Many posters have given excellent examples in the past and in this thread on him too. We shall never forget or let Canada forget.
Liberals want power with no need to explain their actions. Bonnie Brown just lost her seat in Oakville by more than 5,000 votes (her 20,428 to the victor’s 26,011) — I recall her coming to the mic on numerous occasions to say “when the liberals get back in power” or “we need to be back in power”. She seemed to have a look of disdain on her face within the house of commons and without, whenever she spoke of the Conservatives. What a way to live. A lot of things did not work for her this time. Well done Oakville.
Stephane Dion said in his leadership bid, often, “we need to get back into power” – (power..is the operative word)
Their ship is sailing on very choppy waters. Make no mistake about that. Canadians need to realize this. Their smooth talking representatives cannot set it right either. Not for a long while.
–don’t you just hate it when you have not re-read your post before pressing the send button…and a huge typo shows… eg – docturate – doctorate…it should be.. and I am amused at my choice of words about chretien “lies pretty low” – I didnt mean he lies hehehe but perhaps he does that too….(or stretches the truth) I am alleging here.–off to have some lunch… keep up the good posts…
The Chretien/Martin heros, for slaying the deficit (with Mulroney’s GST and downloading onto the provinces)
is very soon to be overshadowed by PMSH.
Worst economic crisis since the depression.
The advanced moves by PMSH, Flaherty and Carney (gov BoC) in 2007, made Canada THE global model of stability. (An economist even credited the GST cut for keeping Canada out of recession waters. ha)
Canada sits at the head of the G7,G8, G20 table.
Amazing.
No recession, 2 quarters of sluggist growth ahead (we’re walking the R line here, no doubt) and we are going to come out the other side running, full tilt.
Forecasts are for Canada to rebound with exceptional growth over 3% ( a bit too fast).
The Libs want to fast forward their leadership race to catch PMSH in the 6 month ‘sluggishness’.
But, they will lose the battle of timing.
By the summer, Canada’s recovery will be well underway.
PMSH was right, 100% right, and Canadians will believe him next time around too.
Bye bye Cretien/Martin legacy of the best in hard times.
Hello Prime Minister Harper, who’s leadership kept Canada’s boat afloat, while all the big ships around her were sinking.
It’s one for the history books.
p.s. other countries may also follow PMSHs lead and ditch the carbon tax. haha
“p.s. other countries may also follow PMSHs lead and ditch the carbon tax. haha”
And that,Wilson, is why we are hearing the shrill voices get louder and louder and louder because they know that their “green” shaft is over and it scares the crap out of them.
Further to what Wilson is saying, the LPC’s future electoral success is largely out of their control. Even their selection of a leader won’t make much difference. Unless that leader can raise lots of money, recruit high profile candidates, keep incumbent MPs from quiting, and present the LPC as a government-in-waiting. But I don’t see Iggy or Rae talking as if those things are priorities for them. Both will probably focus on policies, visions, nitpicking everything Harper does, and digging up scandals–i.e. more of the same as what Dion did, but better bi-lingual spinners than Dion.
The conventional wisdom is that sitting governments get voted OUT, rather than opposition parties getting voted IN. Thus the best hope for the LPC is that, when the next election rolls around, the economy will be in the dumps, and the mood of the electorate is to “throw the bums out”.
So that means the sooner the better for the next election. But the Libs obviously won’t be able to raise the money they need in a six-month period.
The NDP and BLOC have their own agendas, and can easily find ways to keep an early election off the table.
Another thing I got from this campaign is that many of our seat gains will come from picking off Liberal seats where the incumbent MP is quiting. I thought Goodale was vulnerable, because of the Greenshift. But his personal popularity was so high, that even a Sask-economy-killing idea wasn’t enough to depose him. Goodale, and many other incumbent Liberals seem able to survive whatever hand grenades their next leader tosses into their ridings (although Dosanjh and Keith Martin almost lost). But when Goodale retires, all bets are off. Same thing, as Heddy Fry and each of the three Lib MPs in PEI retire.
Another thing I got from this campaign is that many of our seat gains will come from picking off Liberal seats where the incumbent MP is quiting.
liberals bad for wanting to form government but conservatives good for wanting to hang on to na dincrease power?
how does that work?
for wanting to hang on to na dincrease power?
Would you like to start again, Jeff?
One really has to wonder if the whole “Power Corp” conspiracy does play into Chretien’s stranglehold on the Liberal party?
AG, someone had a diagram of Powercorp posted recently. It was like a flow chart. Do you recall seeing it? I wish I could remember whose blog had posted it.
Do the Libs even care about having a policy convention? The response by Senator Smith seems to answer these questions.
Stevie, exactly. Well, to give Dion credit, he did try to establish some policy but it was the wrong message for the wrong time.
I’m a Chretien fan. At least he did much more damage to the Liberal Party than he did to Canada, just the reverse of Trudeau.
I must remember that one, Swift!
When I saw Senator David Smith’s remark about getting back into government, I thought to myself, they haven’t learned a damn thing. Still the arrogant, entitled bunch they always have been. A real shame they didn’t get wiped out in the last election.
Conservative Reporter has a post about a recount going on as we speak in Ujjal’s riding. Also a letter published by the conservative candidate prior to the election. Both must reads.
“AG, someone had a diagram of Powercorp posted recently. It was like a flow chart. Do you recall seeing it? I wish I could remember whose blog had posted it.”
I did see it Joanne – it was only a couple of days ago too because I remember looking over the various names. I looked back for two days and can’t find it? Maybe someone will come up with it.
Here is the Powercorp chart I think everyone is looking for. http://westernstandard.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/connectingchart.jpg
Thanks, frmgrl!
Does anyone know who David McGuinty supported in the previous Liberal leadership race?
Warren couldn’t maintain the code of silence and solidarity very long.
“Thanks, frmgrl!”
No problem.
Ralphie on CTV , says libs should get all the credit for the banking system being stable….
reminder that the libs voted against changes to the bank legislation needed in this crisis.
The libs ‘sky is falling panic’ sure didn’t seem like libs thought the banks were stable..??
And how is it that Harper wasted the $12B surplus the libs left in 2006,
yet PMSH posted a $9B surplus in 2007 PLUS pumped $20B into the economy/provinces 2007-08?
All of which contributes to the Canadian economy avoiding ruin.
No Ralphie, credit due to the government that used the tools available, plus headed off a credit crunch disaster.
Government Budgets SHOULD tiptoe on the fine line of a small surplus.
That keeps spending in check in good times.
Example: mcGuinty had a $5 Billion windfall, and spent every penny in election promises rather than sticking to their original budget,
and using the $5B for tax cuts or excellerating job creating infrastructure projects….see $500M deficit today.
Another chart to work your way through:
http://www.powercorporation.com/index.php?lang=eng&comp=powercorp&page=orgcharthtml
http://www.powercorporation.com/index.php?lang=eng&comp=powercorp&page=directors
Fascinating, JT. Thanks for that.
…Example: mcGuinty had a $5 Billion windfall, and spent every penny in election promises rather than sticking to their original budget,
and using the $5B for tax cuts or excellerating job creating infrastructure projects….see $500M deficit today.
Wilson, that was a very enlightening comment. I was hoping to do a post about this but ran out of time. Thanks for highlighting it.
The real problem is that McGuinty has a free ride right now with his majority and little in the way of opposition.
Re: Power corps – I missed this one back in August.
Was Garth at the meeting, and did not get in front of a camera or mic. Can’t believe it. Wonder if he would like to do over his decision to ignore advise and get kicked out of caucus, or maybe do over his decision to cross to the libs.
Joanne,
New development on electoral fraud front, we need to make some serious noise.
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?p=48356#48356
Wonder if he would like to do over his decision to ignore advise and get kicked out of caucus, or maybe do over his decision to cross to the libs.
He can’t help what he is, i.e., a self-absorbed, self-important individual. He would not change a thing he did, and blames his constituents for kicking him.
If Dosajhn runs in the leadership contest watch for him to deliver his delegates to Bob Rae.