EVERYONE’S taxes will go down?
I’m a little confused. Garth Turner has a summary of the Green Shift which he has prepared for his constituents. He titled the post "Green Truth".
One item was bothering me:
Question: Won’t polluters pass the tax on to consumers?
"Most will reduce pollution, to avoid the tax. But others will pass the tax on in the form of higher prices, mostly for energy. But this is the reason everyone’s income taxes are going down – so nobody will be worse off, as we clean up the environment."
Yet, Adam Taylor of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation has made the following observation:
The Liberal Green Shift plan, which has been sold as "revenue neutral," would raise an estimated $15 billion in taxes and yet only return about $9.5 billion in corporate and personal income tax reductions, says Taylor.
"So that’s not a revenue-neutral plan," he says.
"That is a net gain for some people and a net loss for others."
So, who’s right? If Garth is telling the ‘truth’, what does that say about Adam Taylor?
* * * *
Related : Green Shift would bleed Alberta, experts say - Times Colonist.
September 21st, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Business would pay for it dearly - and then pass it along (with the retail markups).
Taxpayers (individuals) taxes would go down, but the reduction would be lost on huge price increases.
The plan is nuts.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Goldhawk has a 2 hr show on environment..McCallum is on for libs,Pierre Polievrre for Cons.Get yer phones fired up to call in kiddies!
September 21st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Sammy, I’m watching it now. Somebody said that John Baird should be in jail? Did I hear that right?
September 21st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
John McCallum - “There’s no bureaucracy” (involved with the Green Shift). Uh-huh.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Jo,you heard only part of it!The caller (lib plant)..and there have been 2 calls saying the same thing…said’the corrupt John Baird,Clement and Flaherty were in power when Walkerton occured and they should all be in jail!’Nice of Goldhawk (liberal) to let this go on,and what about the 2 drunk brothers???? No one corrects this crap.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:04 pm
CTV still hammering ,and expanding on the ‘blogger’ scandal.Putting up full screen shots of his posts.They have Bob Rae bitching about it..now they say the Cons.will be on later to respond.
BTW,AGWN has done some ‘tracking’ on the hackery..check it out.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Sammy, I’m surprised they let that caller ramble on. Some of the comments were almost libelous.
BTW, your second comment got stuck in the spam filter due to the b-word.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Oops,sorry bout the ‘bad word’…am washing my mouth with soap now! I was just so angry,and don’t want to kick the dog!
September 21st, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Wow. Adam Taylor is on CPAC right now!
He says that carbon taxes have devastated the economies in Europe.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:16 pm
No worries, Sammy! I just put that one in as a comment checker, because there are some male “Progressive” bloggers who seem to enjoy calling me that and then their minions come over and leave similar comments.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Goldhawk is a clown. I had a run in with him a few years back when getting my van serviced. It was really busy and he decided he was so important he would just go to the front of the line.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Paul - lol!!!
This guy is awful. Somebody just called in saying he wasn’t convinced about global warming being a big problem, and Goldhawk basically told him off and then hung up.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:31 pm
I wonder why Goldhawk hasn’t run as a Liberal candidate yet?
September 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
This election will go down in history as the Apology Election.
I mean really, what a bunch of namby-pamby, overly-sensitive wimps we have become. Why on earth would anyone want to go into politics and willingly put themselves through this?
It’s really getting ridiculous.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
I realize you have your filter on, so lets just say when I finished with him he was at the back of the line.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:34 pm
I wonder if the LPC will have to include this episode in their writ expenses?
September 21st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I notice CTV seems to not be allowing my comments through when crticising Liberal’s.
Tommorrow’s a big day, with Dion front and center laying out the Liberal platform, including full costing. As I understand it Krista Errikson is working out the final details as we speak.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I realize you have your filter on, so lets just say when I finished with him he was at the back of the line.
Awesome! You can still say it. Just might take a while to get through.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:36 pm
As I understand it Krista Errikson is working out the final details as we speak.
It’s so close to reality, that it’s hard to chuckle, Paul.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Somebody just called up asking what use is it for us to suffer all this tax hardship if China & India go on polluting and our efforts will not make much difference… Goldhawk didn’t like that one. No soup for you!
September 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
paulstuff,I have tried repeatedly to post at ctv,and NEVER allowed.What up with that???
Good quip by Polievrre tonite tho,when he said his math was ‘conservative’ when talkng about the costs for Cons enviroplan.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Sammy, try posting as a Liberal and see what happens.
September 21st, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Another breaking blog ’scandal’…a Can.Military Supplier (knives etc) had anti-Muslim,anti-Lib stuff posted.
This is really starting to stink to high heaven.Is someone doing this crap intentionally?
September 21st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Sammy, where did you hear about that?
September 21st, 2008 at 9:14 pm
CTV had it on,right along with all the other smear/blame Cons..right at top of hr.
September 21st, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Wow, the article in the Globe and Mail about Peter Mackay and Passport Canada workers getting a paid lunch had over 100 comments, most saying how pathetic the paper was for trying to make hay out of nothing.
Suddenly, they reprint the story and all the comments criticising the paper are gone, yet the pro-Liberal comments remain. Go figure.
September 21st, 2008 at 9:21 pm
With all the monkey-business going on, we’re going to have to get monitors from other countries to observe our elections.
Starting to think some bureaucrats need to get new jobs elsewhere if they can’t handle working for Conservatives.
September 21st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Jo,it’s up on the ctv news site I went to the election blog,to news,down at bottom of page.Something funny about this as well,as it has connection to the military knife supply controversy that May was complaining about.There is a smear attack on the Cons going on that is scary,I guess 2 and a half yrs. in opposition has built up a lot of hate.I just pray,that there are at least a few HONEST journo’s that do some digging.
September 21st, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I still can’t find it, Sammy, but I did come across this gaffe list which is a good start. Too bad they cut off the comments. I think we need to have an all-party gaffe list, just to share the wealth.
September 21st, 2008 at 10:04 pm
This is juicy too:
The Conservatives called on the Liberals to explain what they termed the “intolerance” of one of their candidates, citing portions of essays written by Rebecca Finch in an online magazine she created called the Metaball (www.metaball.ca).
The Tories accused Finch, who is running in the central Ontario riding of Dufferin-Caledon, of comparing Stephen Harper to Hitler and Stalin.
Finch said the Conservatives had taken her out of context, adding that she stood by everything she had written for the three-year-old online magazine.
“I am proud of the work that I have done (on the magazine),” Finch told The Canadian Press. “It’s part of the reason that I was motivated to run for office.”
“I won’t be taking down anything that I have written and I invite all Canadians to come and read my work.
September 21st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Oh boy. This Rebecca Finch is something else!
The Globe quotes her as follows:
In March 2008, the Tories allege, Ms. Finch compared Mr. Harper to Adolf Hitler. “Let’s start with the really nasty stuff, though, the stuff that conjures up comparisons to Hitler or Stalin,” reads a post on the metaball.ca website written by Ms. Finch. “Let’s talk about a damaged psychology, a malevolent personality disorder, and lessons that we, the discerning public who are ultimately affected by these characters, should have already learned.”
Tories also allege Ms. Finch dismissed the suffering of victims of natural disasters who voted for right-wing parties: “These are echoes of my impassioned heart breaking when I say perhaps we should feel little sympathy for those right-voting victims of recent natural disasters, for those who have ignored instinct and common sense so they can continue to stuff themselves with superficial gluttony,” reads another post by Ms. Finch on metaball.ca.
Nice. What do you say to that, Mr. Dion?
September 21st, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I cringe when I hear them spouting off about how “my income taxes will be correspondingly reduced” and about how “I’ll be better off” under their greenshift scheme. Just for fun I did go to their site to calculate how ‘greenshift’ would benefit me. Zero. And that’s just the personal income tax aspect. The real disaster will be the inevitable increased cost of everything related to energy; which means everything from groceries to home heating.
Paulsstuff 9:21pm: A G&M item (Makin re: HRC) is experiencing similar… ah, how should I put it?… creative comment ‘moderation’.
SDA and BCF are currently following the issue.
September 21st, 2008 at 10:39 pm
You people just aren’t getting the Liberal platform. They will…
* Decrease taxes.
* Increase spending (a lot).
* Punish polluters.
* Create jobs.
* And balance the budget.
Dion also promises to have unicorns fly out of his arse for our edification. What’s not to like?
September 21st, 2008 at 10:53 pm
“Dion also promises to have unicorns fly out of his arse for our edification”
That explains that grimace he always seems to have on his face.
September 21st, 2008 at 11:06 pm
According to Lib senator Jim Munson in the Tor Star (article about release of Lib platform tomorrow),we are going to see Dion ‘unplugged’ this week! I think what he meant to say was ‘unglued??’
BTW,anyone that wants to read the whole nasty Finch article…and it is a nasty mess,Halls of Macadamia has link up.I recommend you get a barf-bucket first.
September 21st, 2008 at 11:23 pm
So, I wonder if Jennifer Wright, the true owner of Green Shift has seen any money coming her way yet courtesy of the Liberals?
Also, perhaps Harper’s campaign team has some dirt on the Liberals, but are waiting for a more opportune time to drop the bombs? Like on debate night? Never count that out.
September 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
You know Sol,I’ve been thinking somewhat along the same line as you.PMSH has been pretty calm..so,I wonder what is coming.there were tidbits about Adscam starting to trickle out just prior to the election call..could there be something big coming?
September 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 am
As I have described using the economic data available on elasticities of fossil fuels, it is likely that the green shift will result in more pollution.
The only way it can result in less is if there is a tax increase with a negative return to Canadians.
Here