Dumb dump
As Kinsella notes, this controversy isn’t exactly the infamous Face ad, but it was still a stupid move.
Now PMSH is issuing an apology at a presser when he would obviously rather be discussing an important announcement.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
How about running your ideas past some Blogging Tories first, guys? Use us as your focus groups.
We try so hard and then you pull these childish pranks.
More at SDA.
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Afternoon update: I’ve been reflecting on this a bit, and also on the comments from my readers. Reactions range from outrage to a kind of "Ah, get over it" attitude.
Let’s face it - mistakes happen. It’s how you handle them that counts.
Stephen Harper apologized and called the action "Tasteless and inappropriate ".
Exactly. Right as Rain puts things into perspective for us all.
Now it’s time to move on. (But not before you try making your own ad at notaleader.ca !)
And please don’t forget to vote at the poll page! Thanks.
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Sneak peak at Ivison’s editorial for tomorrow.
And this is an example of something that’s really tasteless. (H/T The Strong Conservative)
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Wednesday Update: Warren’s Winners & Losers page is interesting. My thoughts on this are that the notaleader site has received a lot more traffic than it likely would have otherwise…
Props to Paulsstuff for this one - Liberal candidate apologizes for Nazi comments - Canada.com
September 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am
This is the way the last election started but the rolls have been reversed - Look Listen Learn!!!
Dion is the one issuing a policy-a-day rather than the CPC. There is still a lot of animosity out there towards the conservatives and WE need to be aware of it.
Sign wars are beginning to heat up in Saanich - mostly CPC tho
WCT Reports & Comments
September 9th, 2008 at 11:36 am
They better watch out or it’ll be a Chretien facial distortion sympathy vote all over again.
Heaven help us!
September 9th, 2008 at 11:58 am
“How about running your ideas past some Blogging Tories first, guys? Use us as your focus groups.”
I agree, Joanne.
Here’s the message I sent the Conservative party when they emailed me to make a donation (which I did make). The message was sent Sept. 5.
“Congratulations to the Party on presenting a positive message, with PM Harper highlighting what the Conservatives believe in.
The only ad I take issue with is the “Stephane Dion - Not a leader” one. Perhaps my political acumen is very poor or non-existent, but I would prefer seeing an ad telling Canadians why Liberal policies won’t work, rather than one ridiculing the Liberal leader. By doing that, you may risk appealing to the ‘poor underdog’ reaction from uncommitted voters, IMO. (I am NOT uncommitted).
Political junkies may know what the Michael Ignatieff “we didn’t get it done” comment means, but does the general public?
Please understand, I am simply concerned about the effect a negative campaign could have on the Conservatives’ chances for winning the election.”
Guess they didn’t read that email.
And if they did, the “Jackass” mentality of some of the people designing some of their ads unfortunately won out.
On the other hand, if they go ’soft’ they’re also criticized. So, it’s difficult to strike the happy medium.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
The Cons may get short-term flak for this, but the pathetic image of Dion and the puffin will stick in people’s minds. So maybe this will be short-term damage for long-term gain. I think the average person will think this is no big deal. It’s certainly not like calling somebody a liar over and over on national tv.
September 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I’m betting that the average voter will have no clue what the Puffin means, let alone a pooping Puffin.
Kinsella’s book advises that mistakes get made and the best thing one can do is apologize and move on. Harper made the apology, now he needs to roll out some positives.
It’s not like the Liberals have ever done anything stupid to offend anyone right? Just ask Jennifer Wright or the taxpayers to whom Dion’s party still owes the adscam money.
On Jack’s newswatch yesterday there was plenty of discussion on why Canadian politics is so boring.
The repsonse to the Pooping Puffin should be a clear indicator. We don’t laugh at stuff like this and consider anything funny about it. The USA has JibJab that does worse and it hugely popular.
Go figure.
The saving grace is that not many will understand what it means, but I’m sure the G&M and the Star will be only too willing to remind folks.
September 9th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
What I wonder is if there would be any of this “outrage” if Rick Mercer, 22 minutes or the Royal Canadian Air Farce made the cartoon? While the cartoon lacked taste and was juvenile it was not much worse than what we will see on those three shows in the coming weeks, most of it directed at PM Harper and the Conservatives.
September 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Good point, Glenn. The cartoon was childish, but not vindictive.
And you could have knocked me over with a feather when the CBC talking heads were discussing it at noon, and said something to the effect that Dion using the L-word yesterday was at least as bad!
September 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
You’re right Glenn.
September 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Another thing this episode reminds us is that the bar is set so much higher for us than the Liberals. Every small mistake we make gets torqued up by the media (eg FOUR questions in today’s scrum about the pooping puffin !).
Dion makes gaffe after gaffe, and he’s still exceeding his expectations !
September 9th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Dion makes gaffe after gaffe, and he’s still exceeding his expectations !
CJ, judging from his plane fiasco, if he even just shows up, he’ll be exceeding expectations!
September 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Well, I guess I’m in the minority on this, judging by some of the comments, but I still think a certain tenor and class should be shown by those who decry the opposition’s tactics, but then turn around and do the same thing.
That is one reason why I did not get into attacks around these controversies:
1. Dion’s dual citizenship
2. Dion’s poor command of English
3. Ignatieff using the puffin as a symbol
Dion’s alleged hearing problem is different because it sounds/rings not true.
Yeah, maybe it’s funny to use certain tactics, or a good way of showing off one’s wit and clever repartee, but does it advance anything?
If it’s wrong for them to ridicule my preferred candidate, it’s wrong for me to do it too.
And lest someone who often lurks in these here parts thinks she has converted me to her line of thinking … nah huh! that has always been my opinion.
September 9th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
That’s just it Gabby, it’s not meant to “advance anything” at all. It’s humour, albeit misplaced and ill-timed, but I don’t think that whoever did it could have put Iggy flying around pooping on Dion…that would have been in REALLY bad taste.
Let’s not forget what the Liberals aka Kinsella did for Stockwell Day via Barney the Dinosaur, and like was said above, if Mercer does it, it’s funny, but when the MSM standards for Conservatives are breached no one’s laughing.
More double-standard on the merits of political humour I guess.
September 9th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Gabby, I agree with the essence of your argument. In scanning the various posts at other BT sites, I think it is pretty clear that the majority of us think that the cartoon was a mistake and should not have happened. Unfortunately, because of the climate in which we live (i.e. political correctness and a MSM that places conservatives on a higher moral playing field than the other poliitical groups or parties)we have to be more careful in how we state our messages.
In my view, it is a sad day when humour, even pathetic, juvenile humour by someone manning a website becomes the story of the day in an election campaign rather than the issues that the parties are campaining on. Because of this outcry, we are hearing more about the puffin than Dion’s ludicrus announcements today in front of Dawson College, Jack Layton’s idiotic tar sands comments on Gormley’s radio show or PM Harper’s announcement on a cut to the diesel tax.
Unfortunately, non-political junkies are only going to remember one thing today because of the focus of the MSM.
September 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Well, Sol, once again I have to differ. Go over to a far more influential voice than mine, Kate at SDA, saying something similar to what I argued above.
I recall during the 2006 campaign, when I used to post comments quite often at SDA, I was often chided for expressing these very same views, to the effect we conservatives have to behave better than the opposition, not resort to the same dirty tactics.
Given the reaction, I decided at one point that I was fighting a losing battle, so I stopped posting there (yeah, I know, big loss ha!).
Well, I was younger and more foolish then
for giving up a little battle.
So, I stand on my point: if it’s wrong for them to get personal and juvenile, it’s just as wrong for us.
Attack the policies by showing why they won’t work.
Attack the policies by showing how much better yours are.
Attack the party for its past performance (but lay off the 13 years mantra - that song has been on the hit parade long enough).
But attack the person?
Use bird poop to make your point?
Sorry … it’s downright dumb.
And look at the great effect it’s had.
An announcement that should have been highlighted has now become secondary to this - thanks to whom?
The great brain trust behind the puffin poop.
OK, sorry, end of rant.
Geez, 35 more days of hardly any attention to the rest of my life …
September 9th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I respect what you’re saying totally, and agree it was a stupid move, but I also think it’s become the story of the day(as Glenn writes) only because it serves the Liberal MSM better than the screw-ups of their candidate or any other candidate.
But, we’re now thinking like the MSM aren’t we? It’s now ok now the the poops gone, but the Puffin remains?
Who can’t relate to being crapped on by a bird for Pete’s sake?
Yes, I know, timing awful, whoever did it a jackass.
The thing that’s funny to me(yes, weird sense of humour) is that Puffin’s don’t fly and they don’t openly Poop on people. I found it truly an Iggy moment.
Sorry, I just can’t get too upset about this because it’s been done before by others. Doesn’t make it right, but I have confidence in Harper that he did the right thing and will move on…and has.
September 9th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
No jokes in an election Canadians are just to sensitve.
September 9th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
PS - what’s drawing more attention to this issue?
The fact that the Liberal MSM are being their usual selves, or that the Tory Bloggers are mad as hell?
I think is the reaction of the Bloggers. I was surprised that Joanne made it an issue actually, but I understand that some dipstick did something stupid and now the Tory blogs are indicating their displeasure.
Re: the dipstick who did it….so did I, re: the nitty gritty of the meaning behind it…not so much.
I’m betting Mercer will pick up on it too. We’ll then see how we react to that.
September 9th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Something demeaning to Lib leader on Cons website; immediate removal; apology issued.
Something demeaning to Con leader on Lib website; refusal to remove; defamation lawsuit.
September 9th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I’m with Sol. I think the conservative blogs should just cool it on this one. Yes it was stupid, but Harper apologised, so let’s just move on. The media will give this more attention than it warrants, we don’t need Tory bloggers piling on too.
September 9th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Interesting discussion here.
I was surprised that Joanne made it an issue actually, but I understand that some dipstick did something stupid and now the Tory blogs are indicating their displeasure.
I’m not sure I’m trying to make an ‘issue’ of it here. These are early days and I don’t want to see this kind of thing happen close to the election date. The kids clearly need more supervision.
That being said, Glenn is right that it’s sad that this type of thing grabs the attention of MSM more than the very important policies introduced by the PM today.
September 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
jad Says:
” I think the conservative blogs should just cool it on this one. Yes it was stupid, but Harper apologised, so let’s just move on. The media will give this more attention than it warrants, we don’t need Tory bloggers piling on too.
”
Agree 100%. bloggers just gave the MSM more stories to go after the CPC with.
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2008/9/9/3876670.html
I just shake my head somtimes.
September 9th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I agree that it should be left alone, but it won’t be. As an example, cruise over to the Blogs on CTV and everyone but Craig Oliver has a posting on it. Kinsella has been flogging it all day and I can bet dollars to donuts that it will be his #1 loser tomorrow on his winners and losers post. I will be curious to see if he also mentions Harper’s apology as a “winner”. Not to mention that most of the pundit’s columns tomorrow will likely reference it at some point in their column. I guess that the positive is that after tomorrow it will hopefully die away.
If you want to keep the discussion about issues, then don’t make stupid mistakes. So far Harper has been far less negative than the other leaders. I agree with Gabby, stay on message, release good policy ideas and show the flaws of the other platforms and when one of the other parties does something equally tasteless go after them with the vigour that we have gone after ourselves today
September 9th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
So far Harper has been far less negative than the other leaders.
Exactly:
Dion first to drop the L-word
By GREG WESTON
MONTREAL — In a rare slur of a sitting Canadian prime minister, Stephane Dion has publicly called Stephen Harper an outright liar…
What about THAT?
September 9th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
But Glenn, the anger and disgust and spinning is something we’ve come to expect of CTV, and Kinsella is spinning this now too, even appearing to go against his advice from his books.
The story here folks isn’t the same old Liberals it’s the Tory blogs and how it will ultimately turn back on us….guaranteed.
Right Joanne! Dion calling Harper a liar trumps Puffinpoopgate. That the MSM managed to get Tory bloggers twisted means we bought what they were selling today.
I’m going to shut up now because in the end Harper still can point to his accomplishments. Dion….nada.
September 9th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Yes, it was stupid and juvenile but that is all. It is not truly offensive (ie, defamatory) in any way, which contrasts sharply to the liberal response to libel on their website (hence the libel lawsuit). PM apologized right away (took it like a man is the correct phrase), it is now gone from the website. The media is making a big deal about it to distract from the awesome tax cut announced today (will really help the economy); and we are probably helping them by talking about it. It was stupid; and given the media hatred of Conservatives the Tories should be more careful. There is no need to give the sharks an excuse. I don’t recall media attention when the liberals published a “joke” about Stephen and Laureen Harper getting murdered in a plane crash. In fairness that wasn’t during an election but still.
Sol: while I sort of agree with you (see above) in the defence of the bloggers; talking about politics is our rasion d’etre.
September 9th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
OK, my last word on this, I promise
Why are some people - whether unwittingly or not - putting the PM in the position of having to apologize?
Why give the opposition ammunition?
Yes, the ad about “soldiers in the streets” was despicable.
Yes, most of the accusations levelled at the Conservatives and the PM in particular have been equally despicable.
But is that the kind of template we want to use?
Are the anti-Con attacks and this one on the same level? - No.
But in the very fast news cycle we live in, people who don’t follow every single move, and parse every single word like we bloggers, do will form an opinion on very limited information.
To wit:
The MSM has been portraying the Conservatives and the PM in particular as bullies.
So … someone who’s not fully informed ***but who wields a vote*** can come to the conclusion that the portrayal is accurate.
This ad will get play over and over.
Just as we got to see Julie Couillard’s generous endowments ad infinitum, viewers will get to see a close-up of the puffin poop on Dion’s shoulder.
Again, do we want the PM to be put in the position to have to apologize?
OK, I’m moving on …
September 9th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Wait for it folks. When I watched the clips from the PM’s announcement today and saw him say that he wants to be a fruit(it’s in Ivison’s column too I believe) I had visions of today’s discussion here and have to wonder when the Liberal blogs will start making fun of THAT. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when. Will they be forced to apologize?
Nope. Good night.
September 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
p.s. - I was right-PM would be a Fruit-is already replacing poopgate as the issue for tomorrow.
September 9th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Just watched back-to-back speeches by Dion and PMSH and my Lord,what a difference! Dion..in 2 words is a train wreck! Take note as well,the Libs on stage with Dion,and even his poor wife is starting to look sick.I am really starting to feel sorry for this fool.
September 9th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Pretty much everyone expected the Liberal campaign with Dion at the helm would be a train wreck.
But I don’t think anyone predicted the train would leave the tracks before it even left the station.
September 9th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
The real offensive speech is the unparliamentary words used by Dion about the PM. Calling someone, especially the PM, a “liar”, as political comment?
A new low in Canadian politics, and a sign of how desparate the LPC has become.
September 9th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
What about THAT?
Whoops, you beat me to it. If parliament were in session, Milliken would have to ask Dion to withdraw that remark.
So much for Dion running a spotlessly clean non-attack campaign.
September 9th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Whoops, you beat me to it. If parliament were in session, Milliken would have to ask Dion to withdraw that remark.
No worries. We’re obviously both thinking along the same lines.
BTW, I just checked out the notaleader site. I have to admit that it’s pretty clever - especially now that they’ve removed the Puffin poop.
September 9th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Any reasonably valid satire or criticism is ok with me. The point is to win, not tie, not lose the election. The alternative would be to have Dion leading this country, and I dread to see what would happen then. I believe he has a hidden agenda to increase the GST at the very minimum, and possibly reverse several other policies on which the LPC abstained, like the immigration bill.
Dion has already given up the high ground with the liar/Bush/right-wing comments, so I say hold him to account for his “musings”.
September 9th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
The ad is kinda dumb but it’s not earth-shattering dumb. The whole thing is best left behind. I saw the supposedly vile bit on The National tonight; I had been expecting to see a big splotch landing on Dion’s head, or something; instead, a tiny little Puffin drifts by and a tiny little white spot lands on Dion’s shoulder. It’s barely visible.
What’s most dumb about the ad is that it gives pro-Lib media a specious talking point they can trot out to a degree that dwarfs the seriousness of the — fairly glib and trivial — ad.
The Liberals are looking for catchy little memes. Yesterday The National found ways to use the words lie/liar multiple times in a broadcast, with regard to Stephen Harper, and I notice on various threads today commenters are all of a sudden repeating those words as if they have minds of their own. Hopefully Conservative bloggers will shrug off and ignore Liberal and Liberal media embeds’ suggested talking points.
The puffin bit is silly, but it’s not exactly Adscam.
September 9th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Hey EBD - the Puffin wasn’t our idea, it came courtesy of the ones who are objecting the most.
Don’t worry though, just checked out the news before going to bed and they’re National News Network is screaming about the Tory Candidate pulling out - something about past criminal charges so the Liberals will be hooting about that tomorrow, but Dion’s been caught too on Bourque with a problem of his own. Seem Dion’s Outremont candidate was the former co-chair of the separatist “Oui” campaign in NDG during ‘95 referendum. Let’s just see which one gets the media attention.
Oh, and doesn’t it just bug you when you read a headline over a photo, click to read more and the story’s nothing at all about the headline. There’s one of those on NNW at the moment.
September 10th, 2008 at 7:57 am
This is far more newsworthy, yet little fanfare in the media. Apparently poop is more outrageous than Hitler insults. Pollliviere brought this up on Duffy.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features/decisioncanada/story.html?id=ce709700-eaf6-4021-8e65-e23574a1c5e6
September 10th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Wow. Thanks, Paul.
Now Fullard is Liberal candidate that Lizzy May endorsed, right?
And didn’t Lizzy make her own Godwinesque remark at one time?
September 10th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Fullard also regularly posted on Garth’s blog, with much the same type of reference. I had a sparring match with him on Janke’s blog awhile back when they were running billboards in farmers fields here about the income trust tax. I’ll try to find it later. Can’t remember when it was (seniors moment:0)
Duffy’s shows have been great so far. I never taped Monday’s show, but I thought Duffy had said right after a commercial break that Liberal’s had sent him an e-mail during the break stating not to mention Dion’s comment on musing about raising the gst. Duff laughed it off. Brought back memories of John Duffy threating Mike during a break about not bringing up the soldiers in streets gaffe.
September 10th, 2008 at 9:00 am
But even as Ms. May vehemently denied she is co-operating with the Liberals, an email surfaced showing Ms. May cheering on a Liberal candidate.
This morning at 9:19 a.m., Ms. May sent an email to Brent Fullard, the new Liberal candidate in Whitby-Oshawa, Ont., and copied the email to a broad range of reporters and politicians.
“I cannot help myself!!! GOOD LUCK BRENT!!!,” writes Ms. May in response to a Liberal press release announcing Mr. Fullard’s candidacy. “You and Doug together can expose the massive incompetence of Mr. [Jim] Flaherty.”
The reference to ‘Doug’ is Doug Anderson, the Green candidate in Whitby-Oshawa for the Oct. 14 election, who could not yet be reached.
Ms. May sent the email to several politicians and political insiders, including Liberals, New Democrats and Bloc Québécois MPs, but it did not appear that any Conservatives received the email.
September 10th, 2008 at 9:41 am
And another Liberal candidate in trouble:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=8dff3883-35f1-4236-be12-41f4b46f0123
September 10th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I think that the MSM are shortchanging Canadians to be honest. What Canadians need and especially in the run-up to a vote is information they can trust.
Who’s going to trust a network or a newspaper that read more like the National Enquirer than anything else.
The same media types to crap all over going negative and getting personal are really REALLY poor role models for good journalism.
September 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Not to belabour a point … well, OK, I AM belabouring …
From Warren the K’s “Winners and Losers” link provided above:
“There are five weeks to go in this thing. A lot can happen, like the birdie B.M. amply demonstrated (eg. What did Stephen Harper announce yesterday? Don’t know? Exactly)”
See what I mean?