I think I’m one of many Canadians recovering from the horror of what happened on that Greyhound bus en route to Winnipeg. It’s hard enough to read the details. Just imagine being one of the people who witnessed it.
The whole thing is difficult to process. We struggle to understand how one human being could act in such a savage way, and yet be so emotionally detached from his actions.
Vince Weiguang Li, 40, of Edmonton has now been charged with second degree murder.
There are calls for increased security measures, although the nature of Greyhound Bus transportation makes it difficult to enforce airport-type precautions.
Surely though there must be a way to check for weapons before boarding. I’ve had my backpack searched at Wonderland. You have to go through metal detectors there and at many concerts and sports events these days. Why can’t something be set up to give passengers and staff a chance to ferret out psychopaths with weapons?
We can’t stop a random act of violence, but we should be able to get on a bus knowing that fellow passengers’ bags have been checked for concealed weapons.
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Sunday Update: I highly recommend this column by Lorne Gunter – A random, senseless act (Edmonton Journal).
I think searches and metal detectors are all fair practices for buses Joanne. By the description of this guy’s knife it was large and would not have escaped a search…if they had them.
If you read other blogs there are those on the left calling for knife bans(just like the handgun bans I guess) and taking a strip of Stock Day for responding in context to that idiotic idea.
Is there anywhere in Canada where we can truly feel safe anymore? Public buildings, schools, transportation. Perhaps instead of the old kneejerk
reaction of banning things, individuals need to prepare themselves for any conceivable threat to their safety. Just what that means I’m not sure, but knowing that this element is among us needs to tweek awareness in us all.
Lets not overreact here. It is a tragic event but what it really boils down to is one nutter with a knife. Do we really want to legislate this to death based on that. If we let the bus companies handle this they will determine what is best for both their business and their customers. They know they will have to take measures to make their customers feel safe again.
I do believe that someone already today has suggested a “ban” Kevin. Opposition member I do believe.
If bus companies or other public transit want to maintain ridership they precautions will have to be implemented.
As far as I’m concerned on alleged nutter with a knife is too many when innocent people get butchered in my country.
Hard to believe for sure …I remember watching a gruesome act similarly a few years back on you tube…It was in afghanistan and I couldn’t believe they actually put such a thing for public viewing … It actually gave me a few nights of unrest ..I guess all we can do is make sure of our salvation and hope that its not a result of the authorities realising some psychopath back into society .
Joanne, I agree that some form of metal detector could be used for passengers boarding a bus.
But this incident brings up other questions. The Globe & Mail headline you linked to reads: “Alleged bus killer quiet in court”
ALLEGED!?? How many people witnessed that crime? Why is this murder being called alleged, as though incontrovertible proof needed to be gathered?
And why is the perpretrator accused of “second degree murder”? Why not first degree?
According to Wiki:
“The maximum penalties for murder are:
1. First degree murder – mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 25 years (can be paroled under the Faint-Hope Clause after 15 years imprisonment, but such a reduction is rarely given and is not available for multiple murders)
2. Second degree murder – mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 10-25 years (parole eligibility determined by the judge at sentencing) (exception: if the person had committed another murder in their past, parole eligibility is 25 years)”
Does this person deserve to be possibly considered for parole after serving a mere 10 years?
Oops! “perpetrator” not “perpretrator.”
This is so horrible, and I feel so bad for the victim’s family. I can’t imagine being in a situation like that. I like to think I would try to help in some way, but who really knows what our reaction would be when faced with something so awful?
I wonder how far off the day is when there will be metal detectors for transit buses.
Situations like this seem to bring out the worst in many people. I was at Garth’s site and somebody left a comment that Harper is so scary and he wouldn’t want to sit next to him on a Greyhound bus.
I can’t get over how stupid and insensitive some people can be, especially those who demand tolerance from others.
I have taken Greyhound out of Edmonton at least 4 times a year for the past 10 yrs. It is usually the p.m. bus to Lethbridge. Have you been to that depot, watching the travellers going who knows where. The only incident I can recall is when a young native man in front of me at the ticket window, dropped his ticket, and I picked it up. The clerk said it was not her problem so my g/son and I tried to find him. We spotted him having a cig outside and yelled, that’s him, and immediately two security people were there and said What did he do. The poor kid was startled and looked at me, and I said, he dropped his ticket and I want to return it. He then had to go back to the ticket window with the men and verify it was his ticket. He thanked me and offered me a reward which I refused. He was about 16 and it upset me that the security people jumped to the conclusion he had harmed me in some way. Whenever our driver stopped for someone that person was questioned before getting on. That hasn’t happened for years on the route I take. I don’t like flying and will continue to use the bus.
What is the difference from 1st and 2nd degree murder. Will he be given bail as this is his first offence- if so it better be about 10 million dollars.
I don’t think a knife ban would work. What would be banned – all sharp objects, scissors, letter openers, etc. Where would the ban start and stop – just public transport, or would it even include walking down the street? How would people carry on with their every day life if they can’t walk around even with their tools of trade; ie. art students, electricians? Would kids still be able to have compasses in their schoolbags?
It has to be stopped or controlled before it gets to the crisis stage. I’m sure we’re going to hear the news soon that there is a background of mental illness with the accused. I know in my neck of the woods, mental health care is practically non-existent. The only ‘care’ that seems to be there is medication with no professionals (or family members) to monitor whether it’s working or not.
It would also help if the justice system was allowed to hand out punishments to fit the crimes, especially for violent offenders.
What I find most…. humourous?…. about it is that now the murder must be referred to as a “suspect,” in the Canadian media. Because you are innocent until proven guilty after all and the 50 or so people who saw you bouncing around inside the bus for 3 hours with a man’s severed head in your hands don’t count for a hill of beans.
I disagree with you — finally — on this one, Joanne. This was a random act by a madman; it could have happened in a restaurant, or a mall, or a school, or a street corner or anywhere else. If we’re to check for weapons in the interest of public safety, shouldn’t we then check for weapons in these other places?
As a Greyhound spokeswoman noted, buses frequently pick individuals up at roadside at set locations in rural areas. Hundreds of thousands — millions? — of people have got on these buses to go see their aunt or their mother or their friends without incident. I think we would be silly to overreact to one random act, horrifying though it may be, and to turn a really quotidian activity into a security issue.
I disagree with you — finally — on this one, Joanne.
It had to happen someday, EBD.
This was a random act by a madman; it could have happened in a restaurant, or a mall, or a school, or a street corner or anywhere else.
The problem is that the places you listed are ones where people are ussually ‘on their guard’ so to speak. On a long bus ride, you are inclined to doze off. This is when you are most vulnerable.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I would be very uncomfortable taking a long distance trip on a Greyhound just now.
Gabby, I was surprised by the second-degree charge as well.
Um, the guy was packing a “large ‘Rambo’ hunting knife” (CBC).
If that wasn’t premeditated, then what was his plan for the knife? I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense.
As far as the ‘alleged’ thing goes, it’s probably a legal requirement with MSM.
“As far as the ‘alleged’ thing goes, it’s probably a legal requirement with MSM.”
Hmm … perhaps where there’s some doubt, but in this case?
Anyway, it is cases such as this one, no matter how rare they may be, that make a good case for capital punishment.
I know, I know, that’s another horse that’s been let out of the barn, so it’s pointless talking about it.
Well, I sure agree that this seems to be an open and shut case, but the big question is going to revolve around this guy’s mental health and whether or not he is responsible for his actions, I suppose.
Well, I sure agree that this seems to be an open and shut case, but the big question is going to revolve around this guy’s mental health and whether or not he is responsible for his actions, I suppose.
and that’s the scary part Joanne …2 3 years in a mental institute ,declared not criminally responsible and voila back in the public domain to ..to what possibly re offend maybe …who really knows ?
here is how far out this sort of thing gets .
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/knowing_nothing_about_the_murderer%2C_wing-nuts_tie_canadian_beheading_to_islam/#93597
From Wikipedia : “In Canada, murder is classified as either first or second degree.[31]
First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation. [32]
Second degree murder is all murder which is not first degree murder. ”
I suspect that at this point there is little or no evidence that the two men knew each other, so the “planned and deliberate” requirement for first-degree murder would be difficult to prove. The killer may or may not have planned to kill someone on the bus, but without proof as to the specific “someone”, the requirement would not be met.
As far as all the “alleged” stuff, if any of the media outlets omitted to say “alleged”, the man’s guilt would have been assumed publicly without benefit of legal process, and the defence would be able to argue for dismissal of the charges.
I don’t like it any more than the rest of you, but there are so many safeguards built into the system now to protect the “innocent” accused, that everyone has to be very careful.
Has anyone actually “seen” the weapon used? We also seem to know more about the victim, than we do about the “alleged” suspect. Victim has a family, does perp? freinds, relations? Is he Canadian, landed, born & bred? Any track record with authorities? Do you get the impression that our authorites want this to “go away” from media scrutiny? They may have their reasons, but the public has a right to know. I won’t speculate on what his motivation was, but last I packed a large knife in plain view, I got a lot of stares! I think that this case will be scrutinized by a lot of interested parties, just to see if justice is done and how it is done.
We also seem to know more about the victim, than we do about the “alleged” suspect. Victim has a family, does perp? freinds, relations? Is he Canadian, landed, born & bred? Any track record with authorities? Do you get the impression that our authorites want this to “go away” from media scrutiny?
I was thinking the same thing, JT. From the newsclip on TV I could see that he looked somewhat Asian. Beyond that, nothing other than that it was reported that he had never been in trouble with the law before.
Has anyone heard anything else?
A horrific, mind-boggling crime! But the, unfortunately, predictable discussion of knife “bans” is ridiculous. And beyond ridiculous, The Globe and Mail said opposition MPs had called for a knife “registry”:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080731.wdeath01/BNStory/National
It’s been two days now, since this “alleged” murder took place. The victim’s family has been treated with disrespect, no, more like contempt by our tax-paid authorities and we still do not know a damned thing about “Vince”. What do the authroities have to hide? Embarrasment? Is there something so hideous about “Vince” that the public does NOT need to know? I mean, the RCMP didn’t even have the decency to notify the victim’s family, they had to find out from some nosey reporter! How about Vince’s family, he doesn’t have one? Who the hell is “Vince”?
This “alleged” murder is a defining moment in our country’s history and how it is being handled is going to clarify a lot of indignant people’s POV towards “authority” in this country and how they do stuff, supposedly on our behalf. Our justice system, law enforcement and the media are under a microscope right now and I get the sense from other threads in the blogosphere that people are outraged! The RCMP tazered a poor Polish visitor just a while back and from what I can gather from the MSM, nobody cared. But we got to watch it happen over and over again on TV. This country is SICK and people had better get engaged or we will not have the Canada we used to have. There are too many incidents lately that stink on how this country is being run. Tasered visitors, head-chopping (blank), as if “Vince” has suddenly disappeared, free speech under attack by un-elected, taxpayer funded bureaucrats, politicians bestowing ever higher salaries upon themselves, do you get the feeling that “we the people” are being treated with contempt by our authorities, our “employees”? The country is dysfunctional and there does not appear to be any decent standards being applied by those entrusted to run our affairs. So, I’ll ask:again with emphasis: WHO. THE. HELL. IS. “VINCE”?
WHO. THE. HELL. IS. “VINCE”?
Exactly. He had a paper route and was apparently married.
The more you learn about this (which isn’t much) the stranger the story becomes.
A bit more info from the Post here.
I think that what this will all boil down to is who we are allowing into the country. We already have our own home grown dysfunctional people so, why add more to the mix? When we do allow enrty, for what reasons do we allow entry, what skills do they bring and if there are questions about who we are allowing into the country, why do we accept them anyway? I frankly do not trust our “authorities”, entrusted to manage this country, to do the right and proper things any more. We see examples of that every day. From the limited information available on “Vince”, that our “authorities” are releasing to the their public employers, the taxpayers, he had no marketable skills to add, so why was he accepted? He could not speak our language, so why are the publlic being asked to subsidize this entrant’s educational upgrading to allow him to immigrate. What exactly are we getting for our dollars spent? He arrived at age 36 from China with no skills and no english language capabilities for him to become a productive citizen. Why did he feel compelled to leave China and why did we allow him entry?
The next question is: WHO allowed him entry and why? And right now I’m not in a tolerant mood to accept some bureaucratic buck passing, or smoke screening on this. I’m a private sector taxpayer and these publicly paid bureaucrats at the immigration office, here and overseas, are under contract to work for me, I don’t work for them. So, I want some answers and so does Mr. McLean’s family – they pay taxes too!
I’m really impressed with the witnesses on the bus. They did everything they could and I’m amazed they reacted so well to that; I think he would have killed more people if they hadn’t gotten everyone off and locked him in the bus. I go back and forth between full-out horror and feeling surreal because it is so much like a horror movie, particularly the part where they try to close the doors and the killer stops them from closing by swiping the knife at them through the door and they jump back (good thing). So many images that belong in a horror flick… not what they expected to see in real life. God.
On another note can you believe the frickin’ media! Bad enough for the family of Tim McLean to find out their son was beheaded and butchered (and cannibalized apparently… ugh) by a soulless monster with ice in his veins; but they found out from a journalist! How could they do that and not have the human decency to wait for the police to tell them first! Oh if it bleeds it leads and they have to get a story and see firsthand the shock on the tormented family’s faces and ask them how they feel! How the heck do they think they feel! I swear some journalists just want blood and tears and if they get both those things on video it’s a good news day. I can just imagine the crowd of vultures outside the house of these poor people. Journalists make me sick.
As for the monster: they have to say “alleged” but this is an open and shut case. I don’t care if he gets life behind steel bars or in padded walls; as long as he never sees daylight again. Is he not Canadian? (I honestly don’t know I haven’t read anything except from the comments) Are they seriously only charging him with second degree? If that’s not first degree I don’t know what is.
Mary says.
Are they seriously only charging him with second degree? If that’s not first degree I don’t know what is.
I think the charge would be the correct one to be able to get a conviction ..think about it they would have to prove he premeditated the crime …He may even beet the murder 2 charge ..Not criminally responsible due to the fact that he might have been crazy due to , who knows …The guy that brutally murdered my father spent 18 months in the hospital before he was acquitted and 10 years later did it again ..Not taking his meds properly I guess ..